|
|
Post by samuraijaques on Aug 4, 2017 7:21:30 GMT
Hey guys, just picked up 3 units of man o wars on ebay for 40 bucks and I want to use them. I have been theory crafting but I have very limited experience with the game and zero experience with man o wars themselves. I understand that what you are looking for from a caster for them is extra speed and possibly cover of some sort. I was leaning towards either Kozlov or one of the Irusks. Is there a better option?
|
|
|
|
Post by narvt86 on Aug 4, 2017 7:55:26 GMT
ill suggest strakov 2 he can give speed a ludicrous amount of armor 26 with the feat. irusk 1 and kozlov both are pretty good with them but irusk 2 hes not the best 4 them i think they already have no KO with their UA they dont care about blast and tough is good but they still got 8 hp and hes feat help them mostly for pathfinder, irusk 1 is the best imo, he can give super tough, pathfinder +2 melee attack, reposition, battlelust and iron flesh but i personally dont use more than 2 squad, with the UA they cost 40 and i strongly suggest kovnik so they get +2 speed.
|
|
|
|
Post by Netherby on Aug 4, 2017 9:12:45 GMT
Vlad2 is basically the best option.
Kozlov is okay and Strak2 should be alright.
But what MoWs are they? All Shocktroopers?
|
|
|
|
Post by jonnyboy on Aug 4, 2017 10:52:57 GMT
I really Like Butcher 1 with my man o wars. He gives them iron flesh, making them arm 23 or as i like to call them 'baby devestators'. He is also effective at making them very strong in melee, give them fury and feat on a critical turn. Now you have P+S 17 4d6 on the charge, or stay in shield wall for P+s 17 3d6. I also run two drakhuns, ruin and kayazy eliminators to shore up his speed deficiency.
Another option i have been dojo'ing is irusk 1. He doesn't make them hit as hard, but bring them waaay more speed, survivability, and utility. With his battle plans you can allow them to move 9" a turn while staying in shieldwall with ironflesh, craaazy. He also fulfills the roll of a 4 point solo called saxon orrik by giving them pathfinder when needed. Battle lust can make them a bit more killy (not as much as butcher). Then for a anti-alpha or after a charge turn, pop feat. Now you have Arm 23 (if you didnt charge), 8 boxes, and 4+ tough, have fun killing them.
Edit: and no knockdown on that feat! Also they get no knockdown from the UA as was stated already.
|
|
|
|
Post by narvt86 on Aug 4, 2017 11:21:23 GMT
butcher have 1 problem no speed buff or nothing to slow the enemie irusk have both even if you it harder if your opponen get the alpha you wil lose alot 8 box is nice but alot of list can deal with only armor and hp you only have 5 or 6 if u take the ua (and you should) so u must take care about your baby devastator  |
|
|
|
Post by Netherby on Aug 4, 2017 13:35:47 GMT
I have to disagree. It's very difficult to deal with Arm 23 and 8 boxes. They aren't going to be the only threat in your list, so if your opponent dedicates most of their army into killing them (and they will have to if they want to remove them in one turn) you should almost always ultimately come out on top. It's just a matter of positioning to capitalise on it.
A bigger issue for B1 is that your opponent will recognise trying to kill the Shocktroopers is a bad idea and instead go after the rest of your army while throwing a few models to tie them up and exploit their low mobility.
|
|
|
|
Post by jonnyboy on Aug 4, 2017 13:59:55 GMT
butcher have 1 problem no speed buff or nothing to slow the enemie irusk have both even if you it harder if your opponen get the alpha you wil lose alot 8 box is nice but alot of list can deal with only armor and hp you only have 5 or 6 if u take the ua (and you should) so u must take care about your baby devastator Butcher definitely has some speed issues, but i feel he plays a good attrition game. With kayazy, ruin, drakhuns you have several models with a threat of 11"+ and the manowars move just as fast as butcher himself. This is my current B1 list. War Room Army Khador - Khador-O-War Theme: No Theme Selected 75 / 75 Army Orsus Zoktavir, The Butcher of Khardov - WJ: +28 - Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Ruin - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 4) Man-O-War Drakhun - PC: 9 - Man-O-War Drakhun (Continued) Man-O-War Drakhun - PC: 9 - Man-O-War Drakhun (Continued) Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor - PC: 5 Man-O-War Kovnik - PC: 5 Gobber Tinker - PC: 2 Gobber Tinker - PC: 2 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 Man-O-War Shocktroopers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 - Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer - PC: 4 --- GENERATED : 08/04/2017 10:02:42 BUILD ID : 2047.17-07-25 As Netherby mentiones the enemy might try to avoid the man o wars or go for softer targets. Neither of which I offer or allow them to do. With the scenarios i try to park my MOW inconveniently in the middle of a zone. The enemy will be hard pressed to ignore them. The rest of the army is armor 20+, stealth/def 15/17, or def 18. Orin is probably an important soft target, but he is one model. I feel like both of these casters work great with Man-o-wars. They both play a bit differently though  |
|
|
|
Post by smoothcriminal on Aug 4, 2017 14:21:44 GMT
The only guy who won a tournament recently with mows had:
Z1
- 2x Destroyers
2x full shockies
2x kovniks
Ragman
Drakhun
min Uhlans
I haven't tried it, but it looks promising.
|
|
|
|
Post by jonnyboy on Aug 4, 2017 14:29:19 GMT
Interesting list, I wonder how he dealt with armor cracking.
|
|
|
|
Post by smoothcriminal on Aug 4, 2017 23:00:40 GMT
Well he had Ragman. Charging unit of shockies using him kills a heavy, Uhlans or Z1's freezes can provide the hit fix. And then shockies survive next turn for another charge under Z1's feat. It's the old Haley2 double alpha gameplan, she even used Ragman herself before she got a theme.
|
|
|
|
Post by leotherat on Aug 4, 2017 23:23:20 GMT
I'm thinking of the following list: conflictchamber.com/#c3101b790deQ9v8s7m8p8q4i88897QgdKhador Army - 74 / 75 points (Irusk 2) Supreme Kommandant Irusk [+27] - Juggernaut [12] - Ruin [17] - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker [4] Fenris [9] Kell Bailoch [5] Man-O-War Drakhun [9] Man-O-War Kovnik [5] Saxon Orrik [4] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [13] - Greylord Escort [3] Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16] - Man-o-War Shocktrooper Officer [4] On my first turn I can fit all of the Reavers and Fenris within the 5" AoD template to give them cover. I can run the shockies up the board with minimal fear since any shooting will probably be aimed at the reavers. Kell is there to pick off any inconvenient solos and saxon for pathfinder on a stick. With all the terrain on the boards now I2's feat could be a back breaker if the board has a lot of forests. I plan to pair this with a B3 WGK list. Thoughts, critiques? |
|
|
|
Post by Armchair Warrior on Aug 4, 2017 23:30:20 GMT
I will go on record here and now that Sorscha 3 is the best MOW caster, and the delightful thing is nobody can say with certainty that I'm wrong...
Man...I hope she is!
|
|
|
|
Post by jonnyboy on Aug 5, 2017 5:27:48 GMT
I'm thinking of the following list: conflictchamber.com/#c3101b790deQ9v8s7m8p8q4i88897QgdKhador Army - 74 / 75 points (Irusk 2) Supreme Kommandant Irusk [+27] - Juggernaut [12] - Ruin [17] - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker [4] Fenris [9] Kell Bailoch [5] Man-O-War Drakhun [9] Man-O-War Kovnik [5] Saxon Orrik [4] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [13] - Greylord Escort [3] Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16] - Man-o-War Shocktrooper Officer [4] On my first turn I can fit all of the Reavers and Fenris within the 5" AoD template to give them cover. I can run the shockies up the board with minimal fear since any shooting will probably be aimed at the reavers. Kell is there to pick off any inconvenient solos and saxon for pathfinder on a stick. With all the terrain on the boards now I2's feat could be a back breaker if the board has a lot of forests. I plan to pair this with a B3 WGK list. Thoughts, critiques? I like the list in principle, i don't see irusk 2 giving too many benefits to the ManOWars though. He has good benefits for the doomies, giving cover and no knockdown. The only thing Irusk 2 brings to the table for MOW is tough on 5+ and possibly AOD(Being used on doomies). The MOW have no knockdown already, they really only need tough to weather a strong alpha and irusk 1 can give them 4+. They do not benefit directly from tactician. I feel like irusk2 is a quantity over quality caster, and the MOW are relying on their own elite prowess here. Which isn't a bad thing, you could actually hide the doomies behind the MOW and have them charge through while making the MOW def 14 with AOD. Yes he can provide amazing board control, but shockies want to get into combat. They won't usually charge, so getting them an alpha isn't too important IMO, they want to weather an alpha. Im going to advocate for Irusk 1 (Pathfinder saves you 4 points on saxon, reposition 3" means a 9" movement with shield wall, ironflesh is indispensable on them, and a 4+ tough feat). Irusk 1 does not provide as many defensive bonuses for the doomies aside from IF. IF is handy though, making them immune to blast damage, and given battle lust (I2 has this as well), 5d6 pow 12 will scrap most anything! This is not to say the list cannot/will not be effective. But as for answering the original question, I don't believe irusk 2 brings any substantial/unique benefits to the MOW. I would also like to point out that Ruin might be better replaced with a second juggernaut snd orrin midwinter. Ruin doesn't hit as hard, won't benefit from bond, and will require souls to arcane vortex. Midwinter can stop key spells just like Ruin and also brings some good infantry clearing incase your MOW get jammed. If you choose to stay with I2, consider dropping the greylord escort. Rise is easily replaced with solid ground from I2 and berserker can be managed with placement. This would give you 4 free points to throw around! Sorry for the long winded post!  I will go on record here and now that Sorscha 3 is the best MOW caster, and the delightful thing is nobody can say with certainty that I'm wrong... Man...I hope she is! I'm hopping for a freeze ability, speed of some sort, and obviously ironflesh! Well he had Ragman. Charging unit of shockies using him kills a heavy, Uhlans or Z1's freezes can provide the hit fix. And then shockies survive next turn for another charge under Z1's feat. It's the old Haley2 double alpha gameplan, she even used Ragman herself before she got a theme. Her feat would provide much needed security for charging MOW. Still Arm 17 is very vulnerable for a 25pt unit sink. I guess i overlooked ragman, he even has sac pawn so he can run next to his best buds! |
|
|
|
Post by samuraijaques on Aug 5, 2017 5:47:26 GMT
woah, thanks for all the replies guys. I was mostly looking for the warcaster that gave the MOW themselves the most benefit. and on that note I think Irusk1 edges out Kozlov. between iron flesh, battle lust and the reposition. not to mention the feat. he seems like the best choice to me.
something like this maybe?
Khador Army - 75 / 75 points
(Irusk 1) Kommandant Irusk [+27]
- Conquest [37]
Man-O-War Drakhun [9]
Man-O-War Kovnik [5]
Man-O-War Kovnik [5]
Battle Mechaniks (min) [3]
Battle Mechaniks (min) [3]
Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16]
- Man-o-War Shocktrooper Officer [4]
Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16]
- Man-o-War Shocktrooper Officer [4]
|
|
|
|
Post by jonnyboy on Aug 5, 2017 5:54:57 GMT
woah, thanks for all the replies guys. I was mostly looking for the warcaster that gave the MOW themselves the most benefit. and on that note I think Irusk1 edges out Kozlov. between iron flesh, battle lust and the reposition. not to mention the feat. he seems like the best choice to me. something like this maybe? Khador Army - 75 / 75 points (Irusk 1) Kommandant Irusk [+27] - Conquest [37] Man-O-War Drakhun [9] Man-O-War Kovnik [5] Man-O-War Kovnik [5] Battle Mechaniks (min) [3] Battle Mechaniks (min) [3] Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16] - Man-o-War Shocktrooper Officer [4] Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16] - Man-o-War Shocktrooper Officer [4] I like the list, very elite which is what I think Irusk excels at. You will have to make a judgment call on juggling ironflesh, even still arm 21 is no joke! A recommendation might be to replace your mechanics with a unit of kayazy eliminators. This would give you some threat extension and throwing battle lust on them makes them pretty scary. All while hiding behind MOW. I am not a huge fan of colossals personally, mainly for thematic reasons and the point sink. He is a good choice for Irusk i would guess, as irusk likes his focus all to himself. But if you were to replace him with 2 jacks you could be looking at 11 extra points if you also swap out the mechanics. |
|
