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Post by smoothcriminal on Jul 26, 2017 13:33:20 GMT
Without any units your scenario presence will be problematic. That list is pretty much all or nothing with assassination being the all for the win. I think Butcher (and Karchev) can get away with not playing units. Unlike, say, Hark or Vlad or Strakhov he's strong enough to sit in the zone, not die to small arms fire and clear the zone himself if needed be. And empower from Seers helps them to always have focus to camp. Also Seers can help with scoring flags while B3 goes into zone.
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Post by GumbaFish on Jul 26, 2017 15:37:34 GMT
I've played Butcher 3 with 5 jacks in WGK and don't think I'd want to run more than that with him. I really feel like WGK is better for him than jaws because the advance move and sac pawn certainly don't hurt him and the rifle corps + rockets provide a decent ranged threat so your opponents have to consider whether they can afford to dance around your jack threat ranges. I think I am going to try slotting in the gun carriage for a jack though because it doesn't really require any support from Butcher himself to be annoying or help bully things around. The additional ranged threat and rough terrain might help funnel things towards my jacks and Butcher also, at least that is the hope.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 26, 2017 23:03:09 GMT
Guess who wrote a battle report on Butcher?
Have a look here!
lormahordes.freeforums.net/post/36954/thread
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Post by Tenzilla on Jul 28, 2017 0:28:15 GMT
This list is still undefeated for going on 8 months.
War Room Army
Khador - B3
Theme: No Theme Selected 75 / 75 Army
Bunker (2016) - Steamroller Objective
Kommander Zoktavir, the Butcher Unleashed - WJ: +22 - War Argus - War Dog - PC: 3 - Devastator - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14) - Devastator - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8) - Kodiak - PC: 13 - Kodiak - PC: 13
Widowmaker Marksman - PC: 4 Kell Bailoch - PC: 5 Ogrun Bokur - PC: 5 Ogrun Bokur - PC: 5 Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor - PC: 5 Gobber Tinker - PC: 2 Ragman - PC: 4
Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
---
GENERATED : 07/27/2017 20:26:11 BUILD ID : 2047.17-07-25
I've played butcher in theme several times. To less success.
War Room Army
Khador - New Army
Theme: Jaws of the Wolf 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Kommander Zoktavir, the Butcher Unleashed - WJ: +22 - War Argus - War Dog - PC: 3 - Devastator - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14) - Devastator - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8) - Ruin - PC: 17 - Kodiak - PC: 13 - Kodiak - PC: 13
Widowmaker Marksman - PC: 0 Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 0
Widowmaker Scouts - Leader & 3 Grunts: 8 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 Battle Mechaniks - Leader & 5 Grunts: 5
THEME: Jaws of the Wolf ---
GENERATED : 07/27/2017 20:27:17 BUILD ID : 2047.17-07-25
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Post by leotherat on Jul 28, 2017 1:03:20 GMT
Who get's the Bokurs?
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Jul 28, 2017 3:40:58 GMT
I'm guessing Butch and Orin.
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Post by skathrex on Jul 28, 2017 8:33:12 GMT
This list is still undefeated for going on 8 months. War Room Army Khador - B3 Theme: No Theme Selected 75 / 75 Army Bunker (2016) - Steamroller Objective Kommander Zoktavir, the Butcher Unleashed - WJ: +22 - War Argus - War Dog - PC: 3 - Devastator - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14) - Devastator - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8) - Kodiak - PC: 13 - Kodiak - PC: 13 Widowmaker Marksman - PC: 4 Kell Bailoch - PC: 5 Ogrun Bokur - PC: 5 Ogrun Bokur - PC: 5 Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor - PC: 5 Gobber Tinker - PC: 2 Ragman - PC: 4 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 --- GENERATED : 07/27/2017 20:26:11 BUILD ID : 2047.17-07-25 I've played butcher in theme several times. To less success. War Room Army Khador - New Army Theme: Jaws of the Wolf 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Kommander Zoktavir, the Butcher Unleashed - WJ: +22 - War Argus - War Dog - PC: 3 - Devastator - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14) - Devastator - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8) - Ruin - PC: 17 - Kodiak - PC: 13 - Kodiak - PC: 13 Widowmaker Marksman - PC: 0 Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 0 Widowmaker Scouts - Leader & 3 Grunts: 8 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 Battle Mechaniks - Leader & 5 Grunts: 5 THEME: Jaws of the Wolf --- GENERATED : 07/27/2017 20:27:17 BUILD ID : 2047.17-07-25 Interesting Lists, although playing Butcher without Ruin seems a bit weird, but I guess that list is mostly build around delivering Butcher and playing scneario. I can see the weakness of Jaws, because you lack protection against shooting. Have you tried WG? Sadly I can't test these lists before the tournament, but I will give them a spin after that. Does the Wardog work well for Butcher3?
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Post by rubicon on Jul 28, 2017 8:47:56 GMT
I've used B3 quite a bit and I've done pretty well with him. I do think WGK is the way to go. Butcher does do some things for jacks. Energiser and silence of death are pretty good, but seeing as I think we are on the tail end of pure jackspam with SR17 now here and he doesn't do anything for the rest of the list (although Kayazy Eliminators with Silence of Death are very good PS17 monsters, I think) but Kayazy Assassins don't gain much from extra strength because they automatically kill any living thing that they hit. Now Butcher has a medium base and this makes him weak to ranged attack, only man o wars and jacks screen him from attacks. So having a walking shield around him is very good. Even if it's just a minimum unit of Infantry. And it makes for a good combined arms list. Now, do I buy a marauder to make the list I fancy? Or maybe I can convince my girlfriend that I need a Gun Carriage. This is very much my experience also, whilst B3 loves Eliminators and does reasonably well in Jaws, he is actually better in WGK.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Jul 28, 2017 12:31:19 GMT
This list is still undefeated for going on 8 months. War Room Army Khador - B3 Theme: No Theme Selected 75 / 75 Army Bunker (2016) - Steamroller Objective Kommander Zoktavir, the Butcher Unleashed - WJ: +22 - War Argus - War Dog - PC: 3 - Devastator - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14) - Devastator - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8) - Kodiak - PC: 13 - Kodiak - PC: 13 Widowmaker Marksman - PC: 4 Kell Bailoch - PC: 5 Ogrun Bokur - PC: 5 Ogrun Bokur - PC: 5 Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor - PC: 5 Gobber Tinker - PC: 2 Ragman - PC: 4 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 --- GENERATED : 07/27/2017 20:26:11 BUILD ID : 2047.17-07-25 I've played butcher in theme several times. To less success. War Room Army Khador - New Army Theme: Jaws of the Wolf 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Kommander Zoktavir, the Butcher Unleashed - WJ: +22 - War Argus - War Dog - PC: 3 - Devastator - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14) - Devastator - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8) - Ruin - PC: 17 - Kodiak - PC: 13 - Kodiak - PC: 13 Widowmaker Marksman - PC: 0 Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 0 Widowmaker Scouts - Leader & 3 Grunts: 8 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 Battle Mechaniks - Leader & 5 Grunts: 5 THEME: Jaws of the Wolf --- GENERATED : 07/27/2017 20:27:17 BUILD ID : 2047.17-07-25 Interesting Lists, although playing Butcher without Ruin seems a bit weird, but I guess that list is mostly build around delivering Butcher and playing scneario. I can see the weakness of Jaws, because you lack protection against shooting. Have you tried WG? Sadly I can't test these lists before the tournament, but I will give them a spin after that. Does the Wardog work well for Butcher3? Yes, Butcher loves his pups. DEF 16 against the counter is huuuuge. Pro tip: try to position B3 so the dog is behind him and behind some type of cover.
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Post by Tenzilla on Jul 28, 2017 18:39:17 GMT
Butcher and Ragman usually get the Bokurs.
I've never tried him in WGK. I never felt the need to so far. Depending on terrain two devestators and 2 Bokurs I don't think sac pawn has been nessesary.
Yes the wardog is great. Getting the def bonus if you can't kill everything you need to is very important. Or getting party at a critical point in his movement shenanigans comes up less often but is important.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 28, 2017 18:56:29 GMT
Butcher and Ragman usually get the Bokurs. I've never tried him in WGK. I never felt the need to so far. Depending on terrain two devestators and 2 Bokurs I don't think sac pawn has been nessesary. Yes the wardog is great. Getting the def bonus if you can't kill everything you need to is very important. Or getting party at a critical point in his movement shenanigans comes up less often but is important. Really interesting list. I would suggest, however, that you need to play the list into Caine3 and see how it goes. That match up convinced me that Butcher in WG theme was the way to go. Does a lot of the same thing your list does but doesn't force you to send butcher desperately toward a piece of cover and then get bottled down because of the threat Caine 3 poses under feat. PS. As people know I LOVED....I mean LOVED my Butcher3 Voltron list.....and it was really good against Cygnar but ultimately it had problems with the Caine3 build so I got off that train for awhile.
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Post by Tenzilla on Jul 28, 2017 19:25:15 GMT
The Bokurs eat the shadow fires. And then they still have a hard time to chew through 2 devs to get to butcher.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 29, 2017 2:54:07 GMT
The Bokurs eat the shadow fires. And then they still have a hard time to chew through 2 devs to get to butcher. Most Caine lists can put out three shadowfires
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Post by Tenzilla on Jul 29, 2017 14:57:41 GMT
It's true. And they are always a priority. Ace is easy and usually top priority because trickshot eats the support. But Thankfully Kell breaks his gun in one turn or the marksman and Kell do it if Kell can't aim. Then Eliminators usually wreck or engage him.
Snipers and Eliminators are so much better than winter guard with butcher3. In WGK you have to pack a ton of bodies around him in the canie3 matchup it creates issue, and if they are running the light spam, you run out of sac pawn real quick.
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Post by sionnach19 on Aug 2, 2017 1:49:29 GMT
I've been out of the game since the end of Mk. II, and I'm slowly trying to bring myself back up to speed. Is anyone willing to talk me through the advantages/disadvantages of Butcher3 in different themes? I'm eager to play him in Jaws of the Wolf (which uses models I already own and like), but I get the sense from folks that Winterguard Kommand is the better option (I would need to buy a bunch for that list, and I don't really like WG to begin with). Is Butcher3 still a solid tournament contender in Jaws? What matchups does he play into? What does the second list need to cover? I was looking at Legion of Steel (piloted by Strakhov2 or Vlad2 as a possible pairing). Cheers!
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