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Post by zwergenkrieger on Jul 22, 2017 16:51:33 GMT
Hi,
is there any B3 tactica or otherwise useful writeups?
I'm highly interested in B3, but I couldn't get any informations. Watched some batreps on youtube, but I really have no clue what his game plan is. Does he lead from the front?
An other thing I wonder is the jack loadout I often see. Kodiaks, Marauders, often just one of each. Why such a diverse battle group? Why not just Ruin and two Devastators? Devastators can't be pushed, have rain of death (complements B3s ability to clear the heavy targets), offer bulldoze (nice for szenario play). Why no collossal?
Maybe I can get a short summary regarding B3?
Thanks in advance
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Post by steeltitan on Jul 23, 2017 7:22:41 GMT
I have played quite a few B3 games now, for a casual player that is, and almost all against Cygnar (two fairly large disclaimers).
You will find a number of those games on our YT channel; the mighty die.
I have been on a losing streak. My buddy has been putting more time into the game than i could and as a result he's simply a better player. But i hope to catch up soon.
Once I finish my last model for the list i use (check the last batrep where i play the WG theme list) i will likely do a short 'my experiences and showcase video'.
However, to already spoil it a little, i will switch to Harkevich. Im not a very good player but the list/caster isnt working well for me. Maybe its the matchups, maybe not but i want to play a caster that does more for his list and doesnt have to put himself in danger to use his spells/feat. With so many jacks across the table, its extremely risky to play B3 how he wants to be played.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 23, 2017 12:36:30 GMT
I have played quite a few B3 games now, for a casual player that is, and almost all against Cygnar (two fairly large disclaimers). You will find a number of those games on our YT channel; the mighty die. I have been on a losing streak. My buddy has been putting more time into the game than i could and as a result he's simply a better player. But i hope to catch up soon. Once I finish my last model for the list i use (check the last batrep where i play the WG theme list) i will likely do a short 'my experiences and showcase video'. However, to already spoil it a little, i will switch to Harkevich. Im not a very good player but the list/caster isnt working well for me. Maybe its the matchups, maybe not but i want to play a caster that does more for his list and doesnt have to put himself in danger to use his spells/feat. With so many jacks across the table, its extremely risky to play B3 how he wants to be played. To be fair, Butcher doesn't do very well into Nemo Jack Spam. No pulls is nasty and he plays too far back to be caught. To be honest, I don't think Hark will do that well into him either whilst he is Nemo-ing. I recommend a swift juggernaut to the back of the head whilst he is looking the other way.
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Post by skathrex on Jul 24, 2017 8:28:35 GMT
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 24, 2017 10:24:54 GMT
Or you could start one here. It's a free forum after all
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 24, 2017 10:58:39 GMT
Hi, is there any B3 tactica or otherwise useful writeups? I'm highly interested in B3, but I couldn't get any informations. Watched some batreps on youtube, but I really have no clue what his game plan is. Does he lead from the front? An other thing I wonder is the jack loadout I often see. Kodiaks, Marauders, often just one of each. Why such a diverse battle group? Why not just Ruin and two Devastators? Devastators can't be pushed, have rain of death (complements B3s ability to clear the heavy targets), offer bulldoze (nice for szenario play). Why no collossal? Maybe I can get a short summary regarding B3? Thanks in advance Seeing as I have 15 minutes left on my lunch I'll come back and give my thoughts (via mobile!) B3 doesn't quite lead from the front, but he doesn't lead from the back either. It's sort of an odd way to put it, but Butcher hanging around on the front lines waving his Argus around in circles is a good way to receive a quick kick to the crotch and die. He's tough, but he's easy to hit at range and has no defensive tech at all. And a medium base so there is a lot of line of sight issues. He has nowhere to hide. The general consensus is that Butcher holds back and bullies until it is time for him to unleash the beast and kill. This takes quite a bit of practice and it makes Butcher a bit of a fickle caster to play. Sure he can kill 2 Colossals in a turn by himself, but that's no good if the enemy warcaster and his heavy Jack kill Butcher in return. So his army is generally ablative armour that gets slowly chippied away whilst he waits for his turn. I often found that this makes Butcher a good scenario caster, because he'll hang by a flag and wait for his turn. Obviously you want to force things towards him. Now for his war jacks. Butcher has his limitations, he doesn't give out Pathfinder and apart from Energiser he doesn't increase their speed. He does have a damage buff with Silence of Death, but generally that's on him because of reasons. Also don't put it on Ruin, you'll lose out on souls if you do. Speaking of Ruin, always bring Ruin. You'll always find Ruin with him beacaue he is cheap, and he has boundless charge automatically. This means he can threat a good 11 inches normally or 13 with energiser. Now, you can run him with clams. But they don't make good aggressive pieces, PS16 isn't great and when they open up they tend to die. Now if you're playing scenario Clams are amazing. So you can bring 1. But you won't often bring 2. Marauders are just cheap and it offsets butchers low WJ points of 22. Kodiaks are good because of Butchers lack of pathfinder, but aren't heavy enough to break armour (again) and Juggernauts are good at breaking armour (but suffer with a lack of pathfinder) so you tend to bring jacks to cover the holes. As for no colossals, I don't see why they couldn't work. But they don't benefit from Energiser and Silence of Death is generally not worth placing on them. You could bring one for bullying, and it will nicely hold down a flank. But who knows what sr17 will bring? Maybe Jack Spam is on the way out and B3 will come back into his own.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Jul 25, 2017 23:43:59 GMT
So, who's having success with jack heavy B3. Say, at least 6 jacks. I'm wondering if this is a viable replacement for Karchev. And, are you running Jaws or Kommand?
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Post by skathrex on Jul 26, 2017 7:27:48 GMT
I don't think that he is a good jackcaster for really "heavy Lists". With Upkeep and Energizer he is left with 3 Focus and thats about all he does. That and his low WJ Points don't translate well imo.
But you could of course use a lot of Jacks to go heavy into attrition, but I don't think that is desirable atm, because you loose to much in terms of Scenario.
I quite like him in Jaws too (depending on the matchups you want to drop him into) with Eleminators and a marshalled Behemoth, but that doesn't get you to more than 5 Jacks I think.
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Post by cageyj0nny on Jul 26, 2017 8:41:09 GMT
Im running him in jaws with a jugg, kodiak, dev, ruin and big b marshalled with a forgeseer. sprinkle with 2 units of eliminators and some mechs.
Ive had some success, I love behemoth on the forge seers with 2 empowers. The eliminators are an awesome scenario contest / deny tool and if all else fails you have butcher for late game / assassination as others have mentioned.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Jul 26, 2017 11:30:40 GMT
I don't think that he is a good jackcaster for really "heavy Lists". With Upkeep and Energizer he is left with 3 Focus and thats about all he does. That and his low WJ Points don't translate well imo. But you could of course use a lot of Jacks to go heavy into attrition, but I don't think that is desirable atm, because you loose to much in terms of Scenario. I quite like him in Jaws too (depending on the matchups you want to drop him into) with Eleminators and a marshalled Behemoth, but that doesn't get you to more than 5 Jacks I think. I think you make good points, and I keep ending up at 4-5 jacks as well...with 4 in the battlegroup and either a Gun Carraige, or a 5th on Malakov. I haven't tried Jaws yet but I think the marshalled Behemoth would have game.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jul 26, 2017 11:51:25 GMT
I played 5 jacks in wgk before carriage fix. Now it takes the place of 5th jack. B3 -War dog -Ruin -2x Marauder -Devastator Carriage WGRC full+Joe 2x free field guns min mechs
Carriage can switch for a Devastator with the loss of a gun if you want jacks specifically.
I had thought of going Jaws, but haven't tried it yet. I think the main incentive was playing both Behemoth and Ruin in theme. (Butcher 3) Kommander Zoktavir, The Butcher Unleashed [+22] - Behemoth [25] - Destroyer [14] - Destroyer [14] - Juggernaut [12] - Juggernaut [12] - Ruin [17] - War Dog [0(3)] Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)] Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)] Battle Mechaniks (min) [3]
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Post by cageyj0nny on Jul 26, 2017 12:24:04 GMT
I played 5 jacks in wgk before carriage fix. Now it takes the place of 5th jack. B3 -War dog -Ruin -2x Marauder -Devastator Carriage WGRC full+Joe 2x free field guns min mechs Carriage can switch for a Devastator with the loss of a gun if you want jacks specifically. I had thought of going Jaws, but haven't tried it yet. I think the main incentive was playing both Behemoth and Ruin in theme. (Butcher 3) Kommander Zoktavir, The Butcher Unleashed [+22] - Behemoth [25] - Destroyer [14] - Destroyer [14] - Juggernaut [12] - Juggernaut [12] - Ruin [17] - War Dog [0(3)] Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)] Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)] Battle Mechaniks (min) [3] I really think that the Jaws list is going to struggle with SR2017, thats what ive found anyway. Marshalled behemoth is a thing and ive swapped in some in eliminators. I really like the look of that WGK list though, ive never ran a gun carriage but seeing the new rules id love to give that a go.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Jul 26, 2017 12:40:19 GMT
I do wonder if this doesn't suck. I' regularly run 7 or 8 jacks with Karchev....
War Room Army
Khador - Butcher 3 Jack Heavy Jaws
Theme: Jaws of the Wolf 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Kommander Zoktavir, the Butcher Unleashed - WJ: +22 - War Argus - War Dog - PC: 0 - Ruin - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17) - Kodiak - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 5) - Juggernaut - PC: 12 - Marauder - PC: 10 - Marauder - PC: 10 - Marauder - PC: 10
Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 0 - Destroyer - PC: 14 Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 0 - Rager - PC: 11
THEME: Jaws of the Wolf ---
GENERATED : 07/26/2017 08:35:35 BUILD ID : 2045.17-07-09
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Post by leotherat on Jul 26, 2017 12:49:00 GMT
Without any units your scenario presence will be problematic. That list is pretty much all or nothing with assassination being the all for the win.
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Post by skathrex on Jul 26, 2017 13:15:33 GMT
I do wonder if this doesn't suck. I' regularly run 7 or 8 jacks with Karchev.... Butcher3 is no Karchev. And thats why I don't see him as a Jack caster, he plays a lot different. Strakov throws Jacks at your opponent at long range. Vlad does similar things while fixing dice Harkevich increases the overal mobility by a lot Karchev just plays the Brick with Countercharges. Butcher3 has a bit more tricks with Energizer (money against placement effects, or for hiding stuff behind Forests/clouds/buildings), but again doesn't suppor them so well. Instead he wants to grind the opponent down, or threaten large areas into "no-go-zones". Sometimes he wants to bait jacks. I have won games by sacrificing 3 or 4 of my jacks, bringen all the enemy heavys into Impending doom range and killing them. That leaves both sides without heavys, but you still got Butcher3 and he doesn't.
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