Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Jul 19, 2017 7:22:00 GMT
If a list can be beaten it doesnt mean that list is balanced. Then may I offer a corollary: If a list is hard to beat, it doesn't mean it should be nerfed. Also, this is me once again spamming this awesome article www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/what-should-be-bannedquote from the article Cygnar and Cryx, or more specifically GF and Haley_2 do not fall into this definition. I really hate Sirlin's articles, he sounds to me like a powergamer who is afraid he'll be nothing without his abusable loopholes, so wants them to stay at all cost. And it doesn't aplly to wargaming in particular due to wargaming's collectible+hobby+narrative+open system nature. The thing in wargaming is, army lists are not "tactics". They are shopping lists. Army lists shouldn't be hard to beat, players should be hard to beat.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jul 19, 2017 7:25:03 GMT
Quite a few casters in Protectorate make Ghost Fleet nervous. Sevy 2 being one of them, sure he has old man stats, but putting Arcane Ward on himself means the (non-aiming) CRAs need 8's to hit, 6's on feat, but no other debuffs will ever be applied. On top of that his feat can easily remove the leaders (kill the rifles before you expose yourself to feat) and he has Ashes to Ashes, one of the best infantry removing spells, as well as Rebuke and those Pirates don't kill any jacks without a charge bonus to help them. Camping 3 focus should keep you safe from most assassination attempts.
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Post by jisidro on Jul 19, 2017 8:34:49 GMT
I think Sevvy 2 is amazing and making sure a caster has all the bells and whistles is something protectorate can do very well.
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princeraven
Junior Strategist
Shredder spam is best spam
Posts: 256
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Post by princeraven on Jul 19, 2017 12:05:37 GMT
There's more to winning the Ghost Fleet match up than not being assassinated.
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Post by pangurban on Jul 19, 2017 12:52:43 GMT
There's more to winning the Ghost Fleet match up than not being assassinated. One would hope.
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Post by streetpizza on Jul 19, 2017 12:52:47 GMT
There's more to winning the Ghost Fleet match up than not being assassinated. ... and he covered them. 1. mass infantry removal 2. rfp of the unit leaders 3. unit level control abilities to deny charges 4. anti spell tech to protect jacks and caster Sevy brings all 4.
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Post by jisidro on Jul 19, 2017 13:27:33 GMT
Issue become what list should Sevvy2 play and is it good enough to be in a pair? Huge problema with Denny is that venoms tend to bypass most defenses and she can hit them reliably
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jul 19, 2017 13:48:35 GMT
Huge problem with Denny is that venoms tend to bypass most defenses and she can hit them reliably It's also POW 10, if she feats, she needs a 7 to hit if Sevy put Arcane Ward on himself, so she should boost to hit and she hopefully doesn't kill the victim model that she uses to put that spray template over Sevy. Camping 2 focus saves you from any damage at all and leaves Denny empty (4 to cast twice, 2 boost to hit, 1 boost damage, you overboost powerfield on the unboosted for 0 damage on average and can use Oracular Vision for the boosted one) then the Riflemen will realistically get 2 hits if you left your caster in range of all 3 full CRAs, which will each deal 8 damage on average. So if you upkept Arcane Ward and Rebuke and cast Ashes to Ashes or allocated 3 that leaves you camping 3 focus leaving you at 5 boxes. At this point I would say play the matchup and see how it goes, theory is only going in circles. I sadly don't have a firm enough grasp on Protectorate to make a list, but someone could probably come up with something. EDIT: that's without pulling from a Wrack. EDIT 2: also forgot about the free spell
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Jul 19, 2017 13:50:54 GMT
Or she can just run a Blackbane next to Sevy, Feat, Scourge and shoot the guy with 9 Rifles.
Unless the Book is nearby, then she has to put in some effort.
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Post by jisidro on Jul 19, 2017 14:04:01 GMT
You're making a list to face Denny and not have the book?
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Jul 19, 2017 14:13:14 GMT
Well I don't play Protectorate, so I guess I am. Just saying that Sevy2 can very much die to Denny1, regardless of him being untargetable by spells.
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Post by jisidro on Jul 19, 2017 14:29:00 GMT
Well I don't play Protectorate, so I guess I am. Just saying that Sevy2 can very much die to Denny1, regardless of him being untargetable by spells.
Yes, ofc. He needs to go forward to do his feat and neuter the rifles at the same time. He also has great tools for it, 1 free spell, a good arc node and a lot of focus... enough to reduce almost all the shots ghost fleet can get... Not a done deal at all...
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Post by streetpizza on Jul 19, 2017 17:52:49 GMT
If you're counting on rifles also remember that protectorate has some of the best access to shield guards as well. It wouldn't be hard to build a counter list in the slightest.
Hell you could even play Kreoss3 and use crevasse to RFP leader models. He also has arcane ward and is pretty damn survivable.
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Jul 19, 2017 18:30:33 GMT
I am frankly curious: Are there any Mercs/Minions that will help me (or anyone, as Skorne doesn't have that many Mercs) with RfP? Nope. Not in this matchup. While Skorne has lots of RFP (and so do Minions) it's mostly of the "vs living" variety. The Sacral Vault does amazing at this but it's not available to Skorne. So what Skorne is left with are a couple side-eye options on GF drops. 1: The unshootable locks like Makeda1 and Zaadesh2 can take away a chunk of her assassination game but otherwise don't do anything specific. 2: The RFP locks of Hexy1+2. Hellfire from infinite arcnodes and ashes to ashes can neuter pirate units under Hexy2 (who also comes with Banishing Ward and Black Spot for additional goodness). Hexy1 has his feat of dead=RFP. 3: Outside the box of Rasheth and Zaal2. Rasheth comes with the ability to shut down Arc Nodes and can threaten assassination right back at Denny. Zaal2 has a timewalk feat for himself, an army that almost exclusively has magical weapons, an RFP spell and Mage Sight to make Denny nervous. Hope this helps.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jul 19, 2017 21:33:18 GMT
I really hate Sirlin's articles, he sounds to me like a powergamer who is afraid he'll be nothing without his abusable loopholes, so wants them to stay at all cost. And it doesn't aplly to wargaming in particular due to wargaming's collectible+hobby+narrative+open system nature. The thing in wargaming is, army lists are not "tactics". They are shopping lists. Army lists shouldn't be hard to beat, players should be hard to beat. Meh, building a list with a clear weakness and not mitigating it because of some subjective reason and demanding the game change around you smacks of entitlement.
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