Aftershock [Discussion topic, Spoilers]

Yeah. Let me resume the state of the war:

The Cygnar First division is marching to siege the Llalese capital (and if that falls, probably khador loses), but to make up an effective siege, Storm Division had the mission of conquering two cities that are part of the main khador supply chain.

Khador totally evaquated the one built on a volcano (actually just leaving Strakhov there) and baited the Resistance there using an ex helper of Magnus, now turned traitor, to infiltrate the Resistance and give them the name of the Golden Crucible leader that was captured and being interrogated there.

That guy also invented a serum able to give warcaster powers to anyone (while the serum is incomplete and instable now), and Strakhov managed to drill the formula from the prisoner before the end, so now Khador Greylords can try to complete the formula, and if they manage to do that they will have an infinite supply of warcasters, basically making Khador unstoppable.

Llael has gone there with a lot more numbers than expected, and actually refused Cygnar entry into the city after they conquered most of it, so Cygnar was forced to move to the second city.

In the second city, Khador has evaquated all nobles and all citizens worth something for the war (gunsmiths, alchemists, etc...) and after losing the city with a token resistance, Irusk moved most of Khador Artillery (including 5 Conquests) to the city, to raze it to the ground with the Storm Division, Stryker and Magnus inside it.

They managed to do it, Stryker escaped thanks to a mechanic having his gift discovered during the battle and becoming basically a new Journeyman Warcaster.

They retired to the Resistance city, where Ashlyn finally accepted to let them in if they helped her with the Strakhov fortress to free the GC leader.

They manage to do it, but Strakhov sabotages the machinery that kept the volcano at bay, and flows the city with magma, killing a lot of Cygnar and resistance soldiers, and almost kills Ashlyn personally.


In the end, the last survivors retire into the first city conquered by Cygnar, Riversmeet, and Ashlynn is forced to accept hospitality there due to being badly wounded.
The two prisoners (the leader of the GC and his wife, who comes out being related to the Ord King), finally accept to talk to the order and the king pledging for their help, with Cygnar promising high grade cortexes to Ord (that until now relied on outdated models), and the Resistance accepts to join in exchange of the promise to have the chance to decide if the Queen proposed by Cygnar is worth, and a personal assurance from Stryker to do all in his power (even to the point of going against his king) to keep Llael as a sovereign state and not a Cygnar vassal.

Actually, that's a whole other can of worms.

Losing well is at least very in theme of the Soviet Union. How they lost ground and the sacrifices they did while doing it is a very large part of WWII (So a very large part of Russian Heritage).

I thought this was Harkevitch again being a moron on TOP of being out of character.

This was a smartly executed strategic retreat, denying Cygnar everything, whilst escaping with most of what they needed intact.

Just so I know: Khador still has the unfinished Warcaster Formula?

I actually doubt it. This would be a weapon that Cryx would launch its entire Armada for (Firetruck the consequences and sneaking around). It would be the envy of every nation. Narrative wise, it would propel Ord or the Crucible into the most powerful nation in the Kingdoms instantly, dwarfing cygnar and ANYBODY else.

Warcaster on a stick is just not going to happen narrative wise. Or it doses a few people before being destroyed (Captain America Style).

But the Greylords creating flawed versions of it? Awesome. I was wondering what they could use to fill out a Greylord themed army, and this sounds amazing.

Also I doubt those where actual spoilers about those warcasters. Just mentions that they where clients of his.

As I recall it, the Empress had more problems with the victory part not being as big as hoped for than with the actual cost when it came to "victory at all cost". Irusk1 didn't look at the cost. Irusk2 is still willing to make sacrifices, they just have to be worth it. Again, as I recall it anyway. I don't think Irusk2 was Harkevich before there was Harkevich.

The losses inflicted on Cygnar and the Resistance were massive. Worth breaking a few eggs for, for a sanguine general.

He failed, and in doing so wasted the lives of his men. Had he won the number of casualties would have been the same but nobody would have batted an eye. Irusk2 never became a softie, just more conscious that losses matter. It's not like defeating the Storm Division on the battlefield would be possible without significant losses either - loss of trained troops, rather than mostly civilians.

Exactly. Per Irusk2's entry in the Mk2 Khador book: "he realized it was her accusation of wasting the lives of his soldiers that troubled him most. As an officer, he had learned to measure lives as a resource. He had reduced his countrymen to abstract quantities of force and valued them too little." Worth remembering that this is not written via a character pov, but an impartial assessment in the army book entry.

Irusk in the book keeps that characterization. He is willing to sacrifice people who are not his soldiers. He is less willing to sacrifice soldiers, taking steps to remind Malakov of that, but will do so if the benefits are great enough (his approval of Strakhov's plan shows that).

I thought Irusk2 was actually quite well done.

Khador has long been an "ends justify the means" faction, with the Butcher being accepted and convicts strapped to soul-eating swords. Nothing in Irusk's fluff suggests he rejects this approach, even if he weighs the lives of soldiers more heavily in the balance than some might. He takes responsibility for those under his command, but others are less important.


Doesn't work like that. Khadoran civilians are conscipted. But many of them choose to leave the army after that is over. At that point they are no longer Irusk's soldiers and that does seem to be a distinction that Irusk considers important.

How are Irusk's actions not reasonable? They made sense tactically and if the second part of the plan came off he would have removed the Storm Division and two of Cygnar's most experienced war casters. This is only a problem if you do not accept civilian casualties in a war zone. Irusk didn't target the civilians. He targeted the location of a major Cygnaran force, which happened to be in a populated area, in a time-pressured context (the Cygnaran First Army moving on Merwyn) and limited resources. Presumably the alternatives were:

• waiting until the Cygnarans left (giving them time to prepare and jeopardising Merwyn);
  
• waiting for civilians to evacuate (with no where obvious to go, giving Cygnar time to prepare and jeopardising Merwyn); 
• a protracted siege (which was anticipated and would again jeopardise Merwyn); 
• direct assault (with much higher Khadoran casualties).

In setting, it is also not clear that Khadorans universally have the view that civilian casualties are unacceptable. I think one of the interesting issues here is that our take on Morrowism is almost entirely Cygnaran. Khador stresses loyalty to the Empire before religion, and I wonder how that affects the Morrowan morality which is preached. After all, if loyalty to the Empire is part of Khadoran Morrowan preaching, then perhaps good Morrowans are willing to sacrifice/be sacrificed for the greater good of the Empire.