didder
Junior Strategist
Posts: 166
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Post by didder on Jul 15, 2017 18:27:56 GMT
I will say that Zaal1 doesn't seem that great here, since he wants lots of cheap souls to power up his feat, and you don't get those in theme. Two max units fits in easily already and is an ok amount. The change is now Marketh fit in, too. Zaal1 1 doesn't want souls for his feat, just warriors who didn't die to rfp. The point of Zaal1 is the guardians and the advocates have no need to fight over souls. And Zaal himself isn't wanting them at all like Zaal2 does. Immortals arent cheap, its true, but they aren't cataphracts. This theme will see at least 25 warrior models, and probably 35. Plenty for his feat Not like involiable resolve is bad on them. Use your last stand on a Savage or archidon to start off, then switch it to ancestral guardians. That plus mid game feat should be just fine at killing things. For harder arm skews you have hex blast to blank arm buffs and the possibility of last standing immortals as a hail Mary.
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Post by fistedbyhalaak on Jul 15, 2017 20:28:05 GMT
Yeah, you convinced my on Zaal1. Hopefully I can find someone who wants to play against this theme this upcoming game night.
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Post by sardonicartery on Jul 17, 2017 18:27:43 GMT
Really wish Zaal1 had a way to take more than 3 ancestral guardians (partially because I have 5 from MK2). Regardless, this is my first pick (ignoring death rage, as I think it's a trap): conflictchamber.com/#c9201b_-0Ifk4x6S4C4C6u6u6u6H7y5Rft5Rft5Rft5USkorne Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Exalted (Pre-Release) !!! Your army contains CID Merc/Minion theme inclusion. !!! You are using a pre-release theme. (Zaal 2) Zaal, the Ancestral Advocate [+29] - Basilisk Krea [7] - Cyclops Raider [9] - Cyclops Shaman [8] - Cyclops Shaman [8] Ancestral Guardian [0(5)] Ancestral Guardian [0(5)] Ancestral Guardian [5] Hakaar the Destroyer [0(7)] Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5] Immortals (max) [15] - Extoller Advocate [4] Immortals (max) [15] - Extoller Advocate [4] Immortals (max) [15] - Extoller Advocate [4] Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
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Post by josephkerr on Jul 17, 2017 20:16:37 GMT
Really wish Zaal1 had a way to take more than 3 ancestral guardians (partially because I have 5 from MK2). Regardless, this is my first pick (ignoring death rage, as I think it's a trap): conflictchamber.com/#c9201b_-0Ifk4x6S4C4C6u6u6u6H7y5Rft5Rft5Rft5USkorne Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Exalted (Pre-Release) !!! Your army contains CID Merc/Minion theme inclusion. !!! You are using a pre-release theme. (Zaal 2) Zaal, the Ancestral Advocate [+29] - Basilisk Krea [7] - Cyclops Raider [9] - Cyclops Shaman [8] - Cyclops Shaman [8] Ancestral Guardian [0(5)] Ancestral Guardian [0(5)] Ancestral Guardian [5] Hakaar the Destroyer [0(7)] Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5] Immortals (max) [15] - Extoller Advocate [4] Immortals (max) [15] - Extoller Advocate [4] Immortals (max) [15] - Extoller Advocate [4] Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5] I really like the list but would wanna see a razor wurm or rhinodon in battlegroup. Spiny growth does wonderful things for zaal2s survivability, against both gunlines and aggressive casters like butcher.
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Post by illrede on Jul 17, 2017 21:10:13 GMT
Really wish Zaal1 had a way to take more than 3 ancestral guardians (partially because I have 5 from MK2). Regardless, this is my first pick (ignoring death rage, as I think it's a trap) Exact situation with two extra Ancestral Guardians now confirmed. I don't have a firm idea where death rage would be important as of yet, my list construction went immediately to "things that I always wanted to fit in, just couldn't, now can". conflictchamber.com/#c9201b_-0Ifk4v4x4x4x4C6u6u6u6H5Rft5Rft5Rft5USkorne Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Exalted (Pre-Release) !!! You are using a pre-release theme. (Zaal 2) Zaal, the Ancestral Advocate [+29] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Krea [7] - Basilisk Krea [7] - Basilisk Krea [7] - Cyclops Shaman [8] Ancestral Guardian [0(5)] Ancestral Guardian [0(5)] Ancestral Guardian [5] Hakaar the Destroyer [0(7)] Immortals (max) [15] - Extoller Advocate [4] Immortals (max) [15] - Extoller Advocate [4] Immortals (max) [15] - Extoller Advocate [4] Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5] I'm also convinced that I've found a bug where Haakar can be bounced of the free points queue. Involves Marketh somehow. conflictchamber.com/#c9201b_-0I4reF4x5D6N6u6u6v6H5Rft5Rft5USkorne Army - 70 / 75 points [Theme] The Exalted (Pre-Release) !!! You are using a pre-release theme. (Zaal 1) Supreme Aptimus Zaal [+26] - Aradus Soldier [16] - Basilisk Krea [7] - Titan Cannoneer [17] - Aptimus Marketh [0(5)] Ancestral Guardian [5] Ancestral Guardian [5] Extoller Soulward [3] Hakaar the Destroyer [0(7)] Immortals (max) [15] - Extoller Advocate [4] Immortals (max) [15] - Extoller Advocate [4] Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5] +Ancestral Guardian [5]
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Post by dessert hydra on Jul 18, 2017 7:43:52 GMT
Initial thoughts on the unofficial theme is that its for Zaal fan boy/girls only. There are some potential edge cases on beast casters that might like death rage ala Zaadesh, Naaresh, Morghoul1 potentially x2.
However I'd be interested if they opened up the unit choices on CID to include Praetorian models and keep the free stuff for every 20pts of exalted model/units. My thinking is that it opens the theme to more casters.. not sure if it works ala Fluff!?
A major concern with that would be would PP might then then not give us the promised Army of the Western Reaches theme
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Jul 18, 2017 8:06:01 GMT
Initial thoughts on the unofficial theme is that its for Zaal fan boy/girls only. There are some potential edge cases on beast casters that might like death rage ala Zaadesh, Naaresh, Morghoul1 potentially x2. However I'd be interested if they opened up the unit choices on CID to include Praetorian models and keep the free stuff for every 20pts of exalted model/units. My thinking is that it opens the theme to more casters.. not sure if it works ala Fluff!? A major concern with that would be would PP might then then not give us the promised Army of the Western Reaches theme That's sort of where I am on the matter. I can't get excited for a theme where I'll have to buy 2 more full units and UA's so I can use them with a caster or 3. They bring in another exalted solo and a unit or 2 and I might be on-board. Also I like the idea of a unit or 2 of non exalted who don't count for points.
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Post by fistedbyhalaak on Jul 19, 2017 13:39:46 GMT
Here's what I came up with as a different list I might try out this week on games night: conflictchamber.com/#c9201b_-0I4b6r6U6V5G6u6u6H5Rft5Rft5VSkorne Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Exalted (Pre-Release) !!! You are using a pre-release theme. (Xerxis 1) Tyrant Xerxis [+28] - Agonizer [6] - Archidon [10] - Tiberion [22] - Titan Gladiator [15] Ancestral Guardian [0(5)] Ancestral Guardian [5] Hakaar the Destroyer [0(7)] Immortals (max) [15] - Extoller Advocate [4] Immortals (max) [15] - Extoller Advocate [4] Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7] I guess I could go with minimum PGBH, but I'm not sure what's worth changing, and beyond that Xerxis has such poor fury management that 6-10 free fury might be the only way to get him to run four beasts well.
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didder
Junior Strategist
Posts: 166
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Post by didder on Jul 19, 2017 15:46:15 GMT
I don't think the theme is only good for the Zaals, and not because of death rage. Immortals as troops with extollers starting with a soul makes them quite good with several of our casters who favor infantry.
Xerxis1 has a lot to offer in the exalted theme, with Def. Ward stacking nicely with arm17 and their ability to boost their own defense further. Stir the Blood and his feat offer a lot of armor cracking. Often, Xerxis1 had some accuracy issues, but with Hakaar's veteran leader and Advocate help, plus guardian's high boostable mat, hitting shouldn't be a problem. His feat stacks more damage and more arm, with stir the blood pushing them up to P+S17, and ARM21 for a Def. Warded unit in base to base. Reposition is also nice to have, especially on a unit that's gone incorporeal for more going through enemy models and getting stuck in enemy back arcs. With so many models moving around, letting them move and draw LoS through each other is a big difference maker.
Makeda2 might be great with ferox, but might have just as much game with Immortals. With an exalted theme, Makeda2 would actually cast her spells more as the effects would spread over many more models and they all help Immortals get delivered safely. She would rely far less on Stay Death shenanigans, but in exchange would have far less to fear from RFP and healing denial, no longer being hard countered by them. Although, not as defining in an Exalted theme as with Ferox, since the models are less value, Stay Death would be quite impactful in keeping an Advocate UA from being scalpled out or frustrating the enemy from focusing down 1 unit of immortals at a time, ensuring a good amount of Vengeance moves.
Makeda1 would be bad with immortals. They specifically seemed to have kept the power level of Immortals with her in mind when they recently redesigned her. Her feat specifies living friendly models, so don't make that mistake. Sad, because I would love running 30 Immortals with vengeance, Carnage, and retaliatory strike on feat turn.
Zaadesh2 might have a lot to offer his battlegroup, but I consider it a shame not to utilize the Defensive Strike from his feat better by including a fair amount of infantry with him. Involiable resolve is a great spell, as push effects are very strong and this stops them while boosting the naturally high arm of Immortals even further. With IR, your Advocate is much less likely to get scalpeled out. His pair of clouds help tremendously as well, either stacking defense on the def buff the Advocate grants or denying LoS to the lynchpin UA's. That army wide Defensive Strike is hilariously good at frustrating enemy attempts at melee. It pairs very well with Vengeance, and you'd have to go to Cataphracts to find any unit with a harder hitting Defensive Strike than the Immortals, as the Power Swell minifeat afforded by the Swordsmen UA is not active while Defensive Striking. Between his clouds, gravewind from the Advocate, and the Krea aura Zaadesh can force the enemy into Melee that's an ugly flurry of carnage for them before they even get to land a blow. One issue is that the Ancestral Guardians already have Defensive Strike, and so the Defensive Strike from Zaadesh's feat would be redundant. Not a deal breaker, I think.
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Post by sentinel on Jul 19, 2017 16:23:04 GMT
Agreed that this theme is going to be our go-to theme for infantry spam. Immortals are solid and synergize with many casters.
Zaadesh2 list i would like to test:
(Zaadesh 2) Lord Tyrant Zaadesh [+28] - Desert Hydra [38] - Titan Gladiator [15] Ancestral Guardian [0] Ancestral Guardian [0] Immortals (max) [15] Immortals (max) [15] Immortals (max) [15] Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
We loose countercharge sheningans. But still hydra animus + clouds provide great anti-shooting protection, while resolve makes hydra harder to kill.
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Post by fistedbyhalaak on Jul 19, 2017 17:48:40 GMT
Initial thoughts on the unofficial theme is that its for Zaal fan boy/girls only. There are some potential edge cases on beast casters that might like death rage ala Zaadesh, Naaresh, Morghoul1 potentially x2. However I'd be interested if they opened up the unit choices on CID to include Praetorian models and keep the free stuff for every 20pts of exalted model/units. My thinking is that it opens the theme to more casters.. not sure if it works ala Fluff!? A major concern with that would be would PP might then then not give us the promised Army of the Western Reaches theme I think you can do more than just Zaal with the list, but those are the two casters that slot best into it. It's just the odd place Skorne is in with it's theme support. A niche theme for Venators, a niche theme for Minions/Paingivers that only allows 5 casters, and now this theme. I'm legit hoping the two Force book themes are Cataphracts and Pretorians, because that would really round out Skorne's options. I know PP has discussed getting themes for every existing model out by the end of the CY, but it can't come soon enough honestly. Even worse off than Skorne is CoC, which might as well not have an infantry, and Mercs, where large swaths of their force are completely unavailable. At that point you can start doing niche themes for everyone again, because it's no fun basically having to play themes when all you have is very narrow themes to work with.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Jul 19, 2017 17:54:33 GMT
Oh a Praetorean theme would be lovely. We'd have the same benefit as everyone else where we get a Theme that basically makes our (arguably) best list just straight-up better.
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Post by sardonicartery on Jul 19, 2017 21:23:14 GMT
Makeda1 would be bad with immortals. They specifically seemed to have kept the power level of Immortals with her in mind when they recently redesigned her. Her feat specifies living friendly models, so don't make that mistake. Sad, because I would love running 30 Immortals with vengeance, Carnage, and retaliatory strike on feat turn. I'm pretty sure it's undying void spirits getting boosted attack/damage rolls that caused the issue.
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Post by fistedbyhalaak on Jul 19, 2017 21:51:33 GMT
Oh a Praetorean theme would be lovely. We'd have the same benefit as everyone else where we get a Theme that basically makes our (arguably) best list just straight-up better. Again, there's going to be a theme for every model to fit into, so a Pretorian theme is basically a layup. Same thing with a Dawnguard theme in Ret, and a theme for Man O Wars in Khador.
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didder
Junior Strategist
Posts: 166
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Post by didder on Jul 20, 2017 4:13:43 GMT
Makeda1 would be bad with immortals. They specifically seemed to have kept the power level of Immortals with her in mind when they recently redesigned her. Her feat specifies living friendly models, so don't make that mistake. Sad, because I would love running 30 Immortals with vengeance, Carnage, and retaliatory strike on feat turn. I'm pretty sure it's undying void spirits getting boosted attack/damage rolls that caused the issue. I was thinking that they specified living in her feat because the guardians would have defensive strike and retaliatory strike. Which, especially if the theme allows for up to 5 guard like it might, would be funny. Plus, death rage on top of that. Zaadesh can do def strike and retaliatory strike on sentries, but they're way more expensive
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