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Post by cayterpius on Jul 18, 2017 5:14:21 GMT
I'm still waiting on my CID registration to be approved, can someone please get the Thresher suggestion for the Brawler in there?
The more I think it over the more it makes the piece sing.
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Jul 18, 2017 7:57:47 GMT
I know you'll all disagree, but I think it's terrible and I think you're being blinded by your want for a new heavy and for a reach heavy.
Firstly the good: - a reach heavy obviously has great synergy with Doomy2 and Madrak 2. - You could take a couple with Ragnor and not bother with the Mauler.
The Bad: - His animus is almost worthless. It works on himself and doesn't do a huge amount. Every beast in our list needs to bring a useful animus that helps more than just themselves. This is why the blitzer doesn't see play. - He hits hard, but not hard enough to kill a heavy without rage. - He threats further than any heavy we have, but no pathfinder and new scenary rules means he will often need rush.
In a world where your opponents walk into his 12 inch threat range with zero terrain in the way, he will end the world. Sadly that isn't the game I play, so I won't use him outside of Mad2, Doomy2 and Ragnor, which is a shame, because I really want to love him.
That said, if he has a place with 3 casters then he is fine, just not what I wanted.
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Post by cayterpius on Jul 18, 2017 8:55:13 GMT
Isn't the point of CID for us to raise constructive criticism, concerns, feedback and suggestions?
As in, if it's not what you wanted then let PP know how to improve the model in terms of what we as players think we need.
Right?
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Post by Michael on Jul 18, 2017 9:01:11 GMT
Anyone want to post the CID Brawler info here?
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Jul 18, 2017 9:11:53 GMT
Isn't the point of CID for us to raise constructive criticism, concerns, feedback and suggestions? As in, if it's not what you wanted then let PP know how to improve the model in terms of what we as players think we need. Right? I have, I also posted here in an order to try and generate debate.
If I have an opinion I want it to be challenged so I can consider other viewpoints and maybe change my opinion
That's how discussion works. This is a discussion forum, right?
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whydak
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by whydak on Jul 18, 2017 10:16:41 GMT
I looked on this model rules, thought it was cool. Most similar thing in Legion I found is Scythean. 2x RNG2 pow 17, 1x RNG1 pow 15. Thresher, murderous, eyeless sight, pathfinder, Grevious wounds animus. 17 points and its still rarely played. Only advantages of Brawler are chain weapons, DEF 12 and better support? Not sure about support, not experienced with trollblods. I think you should fight for something more Thresher should be high on this list.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Jul 18, 2017 10:20:38 GMT
Dire Troll Brawler – Twelve Factions of Christmas 2017 Trollblood Northkin Heavy Warbeast BRAWLER SPD 5 STR 12 MAT 6 RAT 3 DEF 12 ARM 18 CMD 3 FUR 4 THR 8 FA: U Point Cost: 16 Base Size: Large Damage: 30 (Mind 9, Body 12, Spirit 9) Animus: Ornery Cost 1 Self – – RND The spellcaster gains Retaliatory Strike. Ornery lasts for one round and expires after the spellcaster makes a Retaliatory Strike attack. (If a model with Retaliatory Strike is hit by a melee attack made by an enemy model during your opponent’s turn, after that attack is resolved the model with Retaliatory Strike can immediately make one basic melee attack against that model.) BRAWLER Immunity: Cold Regeneration [d3] - This model can be forced to remove d3 damage points once per activation. This model cannot use Regeneration during an activation it runs. Snacking - When this model boxes a living model with a melee attack, it can choose to remove the boxed model from play. When it does, this model can remove d3 damage points. WEAPONS [BRAWLER] Flail [2x] RNG: 2 POW: 5 P+S: 17 Chain Weapon
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Jul 18, 2017 10:25:07 GMT
conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0b53jmjm9D9DiR0h7d4kfJ6R0l0mTrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Power of Dhunia !!! Your army contains CID entries. (Doomshaper 2) Hoarluk Doomshaper, Rage of Dhunia [+27] - Dire Troll Brawler [16] - Dire Troll Brawler [16] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Earthborn Dire Troll [14] - Troll Axer [10] Janissa Stonetide [0(4)] Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress [4] Northkin Shaman [0(4)] Troll Whelps [0(4)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Stone Scribe Elder [3]
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Jul 18, 2017 10:26:06 GMT
I looked on this model rules, thought it was cool. Most similar thing in Legion I found is Scythean. 2x RNG2 pow 17, 1x RNG1 pow 15. Thresher, murderous, eyeless sight, pathfinder, Grevious wounds animus. 17 points and its still rarely played. Only advantages of Brawler are chain weapons, DEF 12 and better support? Not sure about support, not experienced with trollblods. I think you should fight for something more Thresher should be high on this list. Thresher would be amazing, because it would give him the utility of being decent into Infantry or Beasts.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Jul 18, 2017 10:57:20 GMT
Ret Strikes trigger Mosh Pit. You can alpha strike and immediately set up to take the reprisal. Two heavies with reach mean using Charge of the Trolls far more often. Champs can get as high as MAT 11 PS 15 WM. The Elder gives +1 SPD to everything but the Pyre and the solos. Borka can put Arcane Ward on Rok, the Champs, or himself, as needed. Really the only thing I don't like about this is not enough Pathfinder, and that can be tweaked at least somewhat. conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0a07jmjm03iU6G6M6R6O0ki-iTbKTrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Band of Heroes !!! Your army contains CID entries. (Borka 1) Borka Kegslayer [+28] - Dire Troll Brawler [16] - Dire Troll Brawler [16] - Pyre Troll [9] - Rok [19] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Stone Scribe Chronicler [4] Troll Whelps [4] Trollkin Champion Hero [5] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6] - Northkin Elder [4] Trollkin Champions (max) [15] - Skaldi Bonehammer [5]
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mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
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Post by mattmcd on Jul 18, 2017 11:15:40 GMT
I know you'll all disagree, but I think it's terrible I don't disagree. I was super excited about this guy and thought 16pts was great until the moment I went to build a list with him in it. Then I thought... "no a Mauler would be better" about 10 times in a row.
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Jul 18, 2017 11:19:42 GMT
I know you'll all disagree, but I think it's terrible I don't disagree. I was super excited about this guy and thought 16pts was great until the moment I went to build a list with him in it. Then I thought... "no a Mauler would be better" about 10 times in a row. It's hard to get offered exactly what you wanted and then realise you were wrong.
The corner case scenarios I can see him being good are: - Doomy2 (Overtake sweetness) - Madrak 2 (Overtake sweetness) - Ragnor (No need for a mauler when you take 2 of those with Pulveriser)
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Jul 18, 2017 11:19:52 GMT
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mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
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Post by mattmcd on Jul 18, 2017 11:22:17 GMT
conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0b53jmjm9D9DiR0h7d4kfJ6R0l0mTrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Power of Dhunia !!! Your army contains CID entries. (Doomshaper 2) Hoarluk Doomshaper, Rage of Dhunia [+27] - Dire Troll Brawler [16] - Dire Troll Brawler [16] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Earthborn Dire Troll [14] - Troll Axer [10] Janissa Stonetide [0(4)] Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress [4] Northkin Shaman [0(4)] Troll Whelps [0(4)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] These types of lists are the only ones that I can imagine taking him in. He'd be the 5th heavy I would choose. This list would be better IMO with a second earthborn and a bellows crew instead of a second Brawler.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Jul 18, 2017 12:00:34 GMT
I know you'll all disagree, but I think it's terrible and I think you're being blinded by your want for a new heavy and for a reach heavy. Firstly the good: - a reach heavy obviously has great synergy with Doomy2 and Madrak 2. - You could take a couple with Ragnor and not bother with the Mauler. The Bad: - His animus is almost worthless. It works on himself and doesn't do a huge amount. Every beast in our list needs to bring a useful animus that helps more than just themselves. This is why the blitzer doesn't see play. - He hits hard, but not hard enough to kill a heavy without rage. - He threats further than any heavy we have, but no pathfinder and new scenary rules means he will often need rush. In a world where your opponents walk into his 12 inch threat range with zero terrain in the way, he will end the world. Sadly that isn't the game I play, so I won't use him outside of Mad2, Doomy2 and Ragnor, which is a shame, because I really want to love him. That said, if he has a place with 3 casters then he is fine, just not what I wanted. I do disagree. -Reach on a heavy is not to be underestimated, especially for Trolls, and not just for Charge of the Trolls. Anything that makes positioning easier for a faction full of medium bases built around a 7-man support unit is worth a second look right there. -There are more ways than animi to reach a critical mass of synergies. In fact, animi are not even a particularly good way to do that, in part because they don't stack with each other. Warjacks and units don't have animi at all, and the Warmachine factions (except maybe Menoth) all had better synergy within the average list than we did before Northkin. -Ornery is not a great animus, but it's better than the Slag paying 1 to be feel bad about himself, yet the Slag does have a niche and does see play, at least in Specialists. -The Blitzer doesn't see play because it's pillow-fisted and over-costed, and the fun shenanigans that it can do are not worth it when we can simply pay 3 points more for far more reliable damage output. It actually has a useful animus. Bulldoze can be amazing for either assassination runs or scenario play. -It's not like we can't put the Brawler in a list with both Rush and Rage. We almost always will. -Not all terrain is rough terrain and small amounts of that, like clipping a forest, can be overcome with the long ranges that Borka 1 and Doomy 2 can muster, especially with Lanyssa. She uses Hunter's Mark, then Doomy can cast Rage on the Brawler and feat. The Brawler can now charge a total of 15 inches, so losing 2-3 inches off of that to rough terrain probably won't stop him.
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