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Post by ForEver_Blight on Jul 10, 2017 19:16:01 GMT
Star Crossed Fyanna 2. People are going to lose their minds.
Would this allow the Aiyanna and Holt with Greylord escort? Or was that already allowed since the attachment made is friendly faction?
I'm actually happy for the idea of getting to take the Ogrun Bokor in theme lists. a cheaper shield guard would be welcome. Or the Swamp shamblers for cheap cannon fodder. But nope. This change is gonna be broke as f*ck
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Jul 10, 2017 19:17:09 GMT
I'm sure all of you hashtag activist are going to extensively test the proposed changes and submit your feedback, right? right? way to insult the target audience you wish to rally to your cause.
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Post by pangurban on Jul 10, 2017 19:19:40 GMT
What? Eiryss doesn't work as a merc for Ret. If this is some actual loophole that works, I can only assume it will get fixed as soon as someone at PP notices. Eiryss is a partisan. Which is specifically called out as being valid. I'll look it up. "Partisan" literally means "not a merc in this faction" though, so that seems incredibly silly to me.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jul 10, 2017 19:20:46 GMT
To be fair, they said in the Facebook Live Stream (paraphrasing) they are aware about the abuses with solos like SJ&WE and that they already have ideas on how to fix it. What they want to do is to source the community to identify the broken shit. And that yes, Themes are central to the design of WM/H going forward.
So yea, by all means, go ahead and brake this thing, cause Themes are not going away.
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Post by streetpizza on Jul 10, 2017 19:21:19 GMT
I'm sure all of you hashtag activist are going to extensively test the proposed changes and submit your feedback, right? right? Absolutely.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jul 10, 2017 19:28:22 GMT
I'm sure all of you hashtag activist are going to extensively test the proposed changes and submit your feedback, right? right? way to insult the target audience you wish to rally to your cause. What cause would that be? The "Please lets keep Mercs in themes cause"? Because I'm neither for or against it, though if it's tested, and proven to work, that's great. But if it's tested and it's proven to brake so much shit it has to be removed, than that's also good. What I don't like is the attitude of armchair gamedevs not even bothering to put any weight behind their own words. It's a CID cycle and you are given free reign to play in the sprinklers with the first iteration of broken shit. Not taking this opportunity to make your voice heard with actual playtest experience because "it's obviously a bad move" is either lazy at best and outright arrogant at worst. Admittedly, I was harsh, so I apologize, adding more noise is not helpful.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jul 10, 2017 19:33:13 GMT
Id much prefer" armies not in theme can take one minion/ merc solo, unit and BE and it BECOMES partisan."
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Post by tesoe on Jul 10, 2017 19:41:57 GMT
way to insult the target audience you wish to rally to your cause. What cause would that be?... Admittedly, I was harsh, so I apologize, adding more noise is not helpful. the cause of getting people to actually test these changes. You know, the one you called for. However, I at least will accept your apology.
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Post by streetpizza on Jul 10, 2017 19:44:05 GMT
way to insult the target audience you wish to rally to your cause. What cause would that be? The "Please lets keep Mercs in themes cause"? Because I'm neither for or against it, though if it's tested, and proven to work, that's great. But if it's tested and it's proven to brake so much shit it has to be removed, than that's also good. What I don't like is the attitude of armchair gamedevs not even bothering to put any weight behind their own words. It's a CID cycle and you are given free reign to play in the sprinklers with the first iteration of broken shit. Not taking this opportunity to make your voice heard with actual playtest experience because "it's obviously a bad move" is either lazy at best and outright arrogant at worst. Admittedly, I was harsh, so I apologize, adding more noise is not helpful. I don't think it will be game breakingly good. I do think that it will force themed options off the table and paper over the some of the weaknesses that were built into these themes form the get go. You don't need to do ANY testing to see that this will be the case. Do you think we need to test to see that: - Reinholdt giving Kara an extra shot is a good thing for her? - Idrians are better than errants and so we're unlikely to ever see errants again even in the interdiction? - Idirans screening for warjacks is really nice to have so we'll be seeing them everywhere in creator's might? - Ruhpert is just always amazing so it'll be nice to have pathfinder built into storm division and tough in every protectorate theme. - Gibs with Stryker2 is really good and will be seen pretty consistently in storm division - Saxon will make a big come back across the factions that can use him for pathfinder - Alton will be back to give a giant middle finger to all of hordes especially since per the rules he can count as one of your free solos. Yep that increase to 6pts is sure going to make a difference now. We've seen all of these things in MKIII already before themes were released. We don't need to test them to know that they'll be a regular occurrence and that they're indeed powerful. Also that's just the solos in two factions that I play. I'm sure there are many more instances of known factors here. Also notice that I didn't mention anything for Circle or Trolls, my other two factions, because this will disproportionately benefit war machine due to the plethora of good options on that side that don't have FF requirements. *shakes fist at the witch doc* W&E and snapjaw being the exception there.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 10, 2017 19:50:34 GMT
I'm predicting that we'll soon see a change to this new rule. Only friendly faction models count towards free models, and only friendly faction models can be free. It's the easiest change to keep junior warlocks accounted for.
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Post by chillychinaman on Jul 10, 2017 19:54:02 GMT
To comment on Idrians in Interdiction, it should be remembered that unless you're playing it for +2deployment and blessed, which is certainly viable, the Idrians are not getting you any free models.
For Reinholdt+Kara, I haven't played against her recently, but I think Reinholdt vs a Squire is a wash.
Once again, I want to ask, is one unit gaining a buff from a Merc/Minion solo enough to really imbalance things? Certainly significant, but I don't think it'll rock the boat as much as people are saying.
I do agree that they should amend Theme benefits so that only in theme models can be added for free.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 10, 2017 19:59:08 GMT
In Kara's case, I don't think Reinholdt is a huge issue. It's a nice gun to shoot twice with, but Sloan is always focus starved. She wants the extra focus way more.
The inclusion of Rhupert will allow Storm Division to overcome a big issue. I'm not sure that it's broken, though. Lances have been nerfed. Requires testing.
Overall, I love the idea behind this change. It means I don't have to pawn off all my merc solos. It does nees adjustments. Mercs should not count towards free points, or be available for free.
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Post by pangurban on Jul 10, 2017 20:08:07 GMT
Once again, I want to ask, is one unit gaining a buff from a Merc/Minion solo enough to really imbalance things? How many units need to get Pathfinder to make a difference? Lack of Pathfinder is consistently mentioned as one of the few weaknesses of Storm Division. This will offer a solution for that. Is that broken? Not sure 100%, I'll have to check how the points fit especially if it gets changed so the merc models can't be taken for free, but it's definitely a plus for an already very, very strong theme. At least Storm Lances got a nerf.
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Post by streetpizza on Jul 10, 2017 20:13:23 GMT
In Kara's case, I don't think Reinholdt is a huge issue. It's a nice gun to shoot twice with, but Sloan is always focus starved. She wants the extra focus way more. The inclusion of Rhupert will allow Storm Division to overcome a big issue. I'm not sure that it's broken, though. Lances have been nerfed. Requires testing. Overall, I love the idea behind this change. It means I don't have to pawn off all my merc solos. It does nees adjustments. Mercs should not count towards free points, or be available for free. Okay then how about Kara with reinholdt and A+H with Murdoch (under themes if a unit can be taken so can the attachment). That's also possible. 3x pow 14 WM shots on feat turn is a thing. Reinholdt isn't game breaking. He was tested for vanilla MKIII after all. Its just a shame that he becomes a no brainer addition. Also yes he is better than squire for her. Boosted pow 12 WM shot or boosted pow6 armor piercing? I'll take the WM shot every time.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 10, 2017 20:23:44 GMT
In Kara's case, I don't think Reinholdt is a huge issue. It's a nice gun to shoot twice with, but Sloan is always focus starved. She wants the extra focus way more. The inclusion of Rhupert will allow Storm Division to overcome a big issue. I'm not sure that it's broken, though. Lances have been nerfed. Requires testing. Overall, I love the idea behind this change. It means I don't have to pawn off all my merc solos. It does nees adjustments. Mercs should not count towards free points, or be available for free. Okay then how about Kara with reinholdt and A+H with Murdoch (under themes if a unit can be taken so can the attachment). That's also possible. 3x pow 14 WM shots on feat turn is a thing. Reinholdt isn't game breaking. He was tested for vanilla MKIII after all. Its just a shame that he becomes a no brainer addition. Also yes he is better than squire for her. Boosted pow 12 WM shot or boosted pow6 armor piercing? I'll take the WM shot every time. Why would any attachments be allowed? That seems inconsistent with the laid out intentention behind Gravediggers. Not to mention that's an awful lot of support cost. It's strong, but Murdoch and Aiyana weren't showing up before themes. I doubt they'll do so now. Sloan has 6 base focus. She spends 3 of them of guided fire. If she takes the Squire, she has 4 focus. She can boost damage on her shot, and have some focus left for camp or allocation. If she's running a colossal, that's good. Reinholdt gives her an extra shot. She has 3 focus. You can boost both damage shots, and have 1 left. Or you can not boost a shot and miss out on that benefit.
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