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Post by Tom_Bombadil_ on Jul 7, 2017 1:50:33 GMT
Ever since the rise of ghost fleet people have spent a lot of time discussing some of the more odd rules interactions between the revenant crew, RFP, and their leader models. In my meta we actually don't have a major fleet player so I am incredibly uninformed and was wondering if anyone could explain it to me so I can be aware going into my next tourney.
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Post by elladan52 on Jul 7, 2017 1:58:03 GMT
When you RFP the leader model, it doesn't come back. Deathbound require the leader model to be on the board to take effect. In that way, even if you have minimal rfp you can cut the legs off the list.
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Post by Tom_Bombadil_ on Jul 7, 2017 2:08:25 GMT
So it doesn't return at all? Ever? So how does this effect CMD radius?
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Post by Swampmist on Jul 7, 2017 2:09:30 GMT
you nominate a dude as the leader, but since it isn't the leader model it lacks the recursion
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Jul 7, 2017 2:10:49 GMT
When you RFP the leader model, it doesn't come back. Deathbound require the leader model to be on the board to take effect. In that way, even if you have minimal rfp you can cut the legs off the list. If you have minimal *ranged* rfp that your opponent can't protect themselves from.
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Post by elladan52 on Jul 7, 2017 2:19:24 GMT
When you RFP the leader model, it doesn't come back. Deathbound require the leader model to be on the board to take effect. In that way, even if you have minimal rfp you can cut the legs off the list. If you have minimal *ranged* rfp that your opponent can't protect themselves from. For the most part. Unless you have mage hunter assassins with RFP.
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Post by Tom_Bombadil_ on Jul 7, 2017 2:56:15 GMT
That seems like a very odd interaction, to have a model that acts as the leader for some purposes and not others. Doesn't the rule book use the same language when talking about staying in formation and recursion? Both say within X inches of the leader just that one is a set value and one is CMD? Sorry for all the confusion.
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Post by Swampmist on Jul 7, 2017 3:03:55 GMT
Yes, but the recursion ability itself is on the leader model (which has a name.) If he is rfp'd, the model is lost, and instead of field promoting another you just replace it
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Post by kombat46 on Jul 7, 2017 3:04:36 GMT
The leader of a unit sometimes have different rules than the grunts. In an event where to leader gets removed from play there is no field promotion because that step happens on destroyed. In a case that hapoens then you assign one of your grunt to become a unit commander and kind of works line the leader fx you meassure the CMD from that model and he can make orders but that model keeps the stats and weapons if that of a grunt.
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Post by pangurban on Jul 7, 2017 3:09:30 GMT
The key thing is that you can return the Leader, who is like a character, with Deathbound if he got destroyed. If he got RFPed, you can't return him. And because you can only return models completely within 3" of him, if he's not there you can't return anything. Another model will become commander, but it will not become Leader.
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Post by Tom_Bombadil_ on Jul 7, 2017 3:20:00 GMT
So the distinction is not that the rule requires a leader model but that the whole deathbound rule is listed under the leader model on the card and when the leader model is RFP'd you lose death bound completely like you would if you lost Celyna from the Nyss hunters or a UA.
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Post by pangurban on Jul 7, 2017 3:30:21 GMT
So the distinction is not that the rule requires a leader model but that the whole deathbound rule is listed under the leader model on the card and when the leader model is RFP'd you lose death bound completely like you would if you lost Celyna from the Nyss hunters or a UA. No, other way around. Deathbound only works if there's a Leader: returned models have to be placed completely within 3" of the Leader. If there's no Leader, you can't do that. The rule itself is on all the models in the unit. If the Leader is destroyed, you can return him with Deathbound since he's always completely within 3" of himself. You can then return others. If he's RFPed, you can't return him period. Another model will get promoted to commander but not to Leader, since field promotions only appoint commanders, not Leaders. The unit will then be without Leader, so Deathbound can't be used anymore.
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Post by Tom_Bombadil_ on Jul 7, 2017 3:36:08 GMT
Okay so I guess that kinda clarifies my issue. I always assumed that the 'leader' wasn't a specific model but instead whoever was currently the unit commander but it appears that unit commander and leader are different things.
EDIT: Secondly, if the unit leader is destroyed does that mean when you go to revive him next turn you could technically place him anywhere as he is always within 3 inches of himself? Or will this never happen because of field promotion.
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Post by elladan52 on Jul 7, 2017 3:50:19 GMT
Point of order: if the Leader is destroyed, he does not leave the table. Field promotion happens and the Leader replaces a grunt. If field promotion cannot happen, then the Leader model comes off the table. There is actually no way the leader model can get back on the table if he comes off it. Because of this, there are actually two ways to stop recursion short of destroying the whole unit:
First, as mentioned, RFP the leader model. As was said before, Field Promotion occurs on destroyed, so the Leader comes off the table and cannot be returned. No more model to place within 3", no more recursion.
Second, destroy everything but the riflemen. The Leader model cannot replace a rifleman since it is not a grunt, and therefore comes off the table when it is destroyed and there are no more grunts to replace.
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Post by elladan52 on Jul 7, 2017 3:52:56 GMT
If the Leader is destroyed, you can return him with Deathbound since he's always completely within 3" of himself. You can then return others. If he's RFPed, you can't return him period. Another model will get promoted to commander but not to Leader, since field promotions only appoint commanders, not Leaders. The unit will then be without Leader, so Deathbound can't be used anymore. This is incorrect. When the Leader is destroyed, he replaces a grunt so he is never off the table. If you are not on the table you cannot be placed within 3" of yourself.
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