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Post by Tom_Bombadil_ on Jul 7, 2017 4:49:11 GMT
Okay so this is finally beginning to make sense. I assume all of these methods of preventing recursion also prevent other leader dependent effects like the spells on the circle Druid leader and the prayers for the Gatormen Posse.
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Post by Swampmist on Jul 7, 2017 5:13:12 GMT
Just checked; posse at the least can also be shut down by rfp
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605 
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Post by Deller on Jul 7, 2017 6:22:36 GMT
So the reason this confuses a lot of people is because people always call the guy heading the unit the unit's leader, when in game terms that's not always the case. The importance here is the difference between a Unit Leader and a Unit Commander. The Unit Commander is the model that the unit is centered around. The Unit Commander is the model CMD range formation is measured from & the model that gives orders. In the majority of cases the Unit Leader is the Unit Commander of a unit; however there are a couple of cases where it is not.
1) If a unit includes a Command Attachment with the Officer rule the Officer is the Unit Commander and not the Leader.
2) If a unit Leader is killed while under the control of your opponent you do not field promote a new leader and a Grunt of your choice becomes Unit Commander.
3) If a unit Leader is Removed from play, leaves the unit, or is destroyed while there are no Grunts in play another member of the unit of your choice becomes the unit Commander.
All of this is covered in Prime on page 62 under the headings Unit Commanders: Leaders & Officers and Field Promotion
These rules are very important when it comes to the Revenant Crew because the Deathbound rule states that the returned models need to be placed within 3" of the Leader. If there is no Leader model the Revenants lose their recursion. Currently the only way Cryx has of bringing back a destroyed Leader model (Lets say it was killed by a Sacral Vault that took control of it before it died, denying promotion) is Goreshade2's feat. So the best way to beat the Revenant Crew is to kill the Leader model in a way that denies the Cryx player the ability to promote a new Leader, either by RFPing the Leader, killing all the nonRiflemen since Weapon Attachments can't be promoted to Leader, or having an effect like the Sacral Vault's Deathly Domination.
The other big unit these rules effect is the Krielstone. Protective Aura is attached to the Leader. If an opponent manages to kill the stone in a manner that stops field promotion protective aura is gone regardless of how many grunts or attachments are left. Granted it's much harder to prevent the Stone from promoting because it has Self-Sacrifice, but if something like Blood of Martyrs with Silence of Death on Thyra or a Satyxis Blood Hag can get onto the Stone it can just RFP it denying Self-Sacrifice and deleting Protective Aura.
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Jul 7, 2017 6:49:17 GMT
Yup, in most cases (when Leader and Grunts are identical) it doesn't really matter if a model is a Field Promoted Leader or just a Grunt who's become a Unit Commander, that's why people confuse it. But in the case of Deathbound, which is tied to the Leader, not Unit Commander, it makes a difference.
It is in the basic rulebook on page 76, so quite easy to check and show to your opponents if need arises.
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Jul 7, 2017 11:13:03 GMT
In a similar vein.
If you rfp the krielstone when there are no other unit members in 3 inches
or when they are effected by Grevious wounds the stone is gone and can't come back.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Jul 7, 2017 15:00:42 GMT
I feel like there is some misinformation here. When a Leader model (= a model named "Leader") is destroyed while under control of the player owning the unit, another Grunt (= a model named "Grunt") in the unit must be promoted as the new leader.
When a Leader model is removed from play (or there are no Grunts to promote, or the Leader is destroyed under another players control), there is no Field Promotion. However, a unit must always have a Unit Commander (which is usually a Leader or a model with the Officer advantage), so another model in the unit (this can even be a Weapon Attachment) gets nominated as Unit Commander. This is however NOT a promotion and the model's rules do not change aside from the implications regarding formation. This also ONLY happens when the Leader is destroyed while being the Unit Commander.
Source: Prime Rules Digest (2016 v2) p.62
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