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Post by drnorbert on Jul 5, 2017 8:57:10 GMT
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jul 5, 2017 12:28:06 GMT
Wew, Khador at 34% winrate, apparently we suck. Are there lists published somewhere?
Congrats on your results. Solid lists and plays all around. Would you change something based on your experience?
Also "He found a way for his Stalker to leap right down next to Strakov, but this was also within 6” of Markov who promptly counter-charged directly into its back." I thought leap doesn't trigger countercharge as it's a place effect and not an advance. Am I getting this wrong or it was a rule interaction mistake?
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Post by skathrex on Jul 5, 2017 12:33:32 GMT
I already told you that via facebook, but you Sir, did a good job and brought me closer to my bae again (Strakov) smoothcriminal: I am under the same impression, Countercharge triggers before the Stalker jumps, since thats when ends his movement.
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zeffid
Junior Strategist
Posts: 163
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Post by zeffid on Jul 5, 2017 12:42:47 GMT
You won two games by clocking your opponent and as far as I see you would loose otherwise. Do you think it is a valid strategy for these parings. Or your luck shined just a little bit?
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 5, 2017 13:01:39 GMT
I routinely win games by clock. Playing faster is just better some times. But good work anyway! Shame I couldn't go, it was held at my flgs
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Post by The Snark Knight on Jul 5, 2017 13:26:57 GMT
Wew, Khador at 34% winrate, apparently we suck. Are there lists published somewhere? Khador OP pls nerf
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 5, 2017 13:31:07 GMT
Wew, Khador at 34% winrate, apparently we suck. My personal theory is that a lot of new players pick up Khador as their first faction, so overall we have more players, but a large number of them are less experienced. Which I reckon is fine.
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Post by Netherby on Jul 5, 2017 13:37:57 GMT
Team Tournament win rates really don't mean THAT much.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jul 5, 2017 21:30:37 GMT
Team Tournament win rates really don't mean THAT much. While I usually agree, I think 34% win rate is very significant in this context. During pairings you are either match in your favor or against it, rarely will you land in a 50/50 match if the team captains can avoid it. So we get these following cases: 1. If the majority of the Khador matches favored the Khador player, then 34% win rate is abysmal. Assuming most players are of similar skill, you should expect a near 50/50 split in this case. 2. If the majority of the Khador matches did NOT favor the Khador player, the 34% win rate seems just on point. But then why would the majority of captains throw their Khador players to the wolves when the perception is that Khador asks really tough questions? This scenario also means that there are more answers to Khador than people realize or are willing to try out. 3. If the majority of the Khador matches were even, then once again the results are abysmal. This is the most unlikely scenario though. I think the truth is somewhere between 1 and 2.But even then, being so far from the 50/50 split is worth noting. I'm willing to bet that hard counters performed way better then expected. And if so that's good news for players that like to rage on the Internet about our beloved Empire
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 5, 2017 22:18:19 GMT
Well. The majority of Khador plays are out there to ask one question. Can you beat this or not?
I put out Jack Spam with Khador and you ask the question, can the opposing team beat this Jack spam or not?
If they can, someone will put forward a huge armour cracking list to take it down. Now the canny general can put down a second arm skew list and the opposing team might be out of armour cracking.
The fact that Khador has such a low win rate might mean that Khador was the nuclear whipping boy, and people were able to counter it and this would allow the next arm skew list to win.
Maybe, or maybe every Khador player was a noob, who knows?
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jul 5, 2017 22:52:58 GMT
Well. The majority of Khador plays are out there to ask one question. Can you beat this or not? I put out Jack Spam with Khador and you ask the question, can the opposing team beat this Jack spam or not? If they can, someone will put forward a huge armour cracking list to take it down. Now the canny general can put down a second arm skew list and the opposing team might be out of armour cracking. The fact that Khador has such a low win rate might mean that Khador was the nuclear whipping boy, and people were able to counter it and this would allow the next arm skew list to win. Maybe, or maybe every Khador player was a noob, who knows? Nah, I think you are right on with Khador being metad against (not a real word,I know). The interesting thing though, is that even in their apex of power Cygnar and Cryx didn't reach such low win percentages with people actually teching against them I guess all that I'm trying to say to the armchair internet game devs is the same thing I've said in the past: tech against problem lists and give the meta enough time to sort them out.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 5, 2017 22:58:20 GMT
That's because at their apex, there were not always major counters to the lists. Haley2 was a good counter to entire factions. Same for Cryx and their crafty tricks.
We can just pump out armour. Hark can't crack armour, Butcher3 is always the weakest part of his lists. Vlad1 is weak to blessed and anything that can knock him down to negate blood of kings.
There are plenty of answers to Khador armour spam, but I've noticed a lot of people will just throw down their toys and complain about it.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jul 6, 2017 2:20:45 GMT
A lot of big tournaments are team tournaments, performance there is important. If team has too many players who don't want to play too many matchups it will go down. Thankfully Khador isn't recognized as bad faction by anyone, and that's why the low win percentage is puzzling.
I don't think at the level of ETC event there would be a lot of bad players to skew results.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Jul 6, 2017 2:59:14 GMT
Are the lists posted anywhere with matchups?
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Post by Netherby on Jul 6, 2017 7:46:26 GMT
Team Tournament win rates really don't mean THAT much. 2. If the majority of the Khador matches did NOT favor the Khador player, the 34% win rate seems just on point. But then why would the majority of captains throw their Khador players to the wolves when the perception is that Khador asks really tough questions? This scenario also means that there are more answers to Khador than people realize or are willing to try out. I'm imagining that people felt Khador was so strong they could throw them into problem lists and still achieve a 50/50 result. Though the lists don't seem to be published, so we don't really know what role the Khador players had in their teams and what counters were going into them. It is also probably some amount of meta shift, with a number of hard problem lists for Khador being pretty common now and people in general getting a better idea of how to deal with high armour jack heavy lists.
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