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Post by octaviusmaximus on Jun 29, 2017 22:05:20 GMT
Your right. ... next steamroller I'm running is gonna be the ban khador tournament. If khador wins we burn the winner on a menofix and eat some marshmallows Or just want changes or debuffs to very precise things in faction because they feel bitter. I will say. I would accept the Kodiak going to 14 points. Its currently a A+ jack and if it makes people that mad then I would settle for a B+ jack. Juggernaught I say suck an egg to the people that want it to be more points then it is. The maurader I can see borderline, I could raise by 2 points and give grand slam and follow up making it a much better slambot but also make it compete heavily with the Jugger and reducing spam (Or just grand slam and increase by 1 point). Marauder: lose siege weapons, 11 points.
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Post by Blargaliscious on Jun 29, 2017 22:08:30 GMT
Your right. ... next steamroller I'm running is gonna be the ban khador tournament. If khador wins we burn the winner on a menofix and eat some marshmallows Or just want changes or debuffs to very precise things in faction because they feel bitter. I will say. I would accept the Kodiak going to 14 points. Its currently a A+ jack and if it makes people that mad then I would settle for a B+ jack. Juggernaught I say suck an egg to the people that want it to be more points then it is. The maurader I can see borderline, I could raise by 2 points and give grand slam and follow up making it a much better slambot but also make it compete heavily with the Jugger and reducing spam (Or just grand slam and increase by 1 point). Would you cut that out?!?!? Stop giving away the farm! Make them earn any points increases to our warjacks. If you give an inch, they will take a mile. If you nail stuff down to prevent it from being stolen, they will steal your stuff and the nails. Do you not remember what happened to the Mad Dog and the Berserker? More importantly, the Marauder and the Juggernaut are fine the way they are. The beatings they deliver might be spectacularly memorable, guided by our gifted warcasters, but they are not under-priced. All factions, Khador included, need a warjacks / warbeasts priced along a gradient of price-points to help with list construction. If the Marauder goes up in capability and goes up in price to the Juggernaut's cost you now have a hole in the low end of the scale. Considering the performance of the Berserker at 9 points, I'm a big fan of leaving the Marauder where it is at 10 points.
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Post by Blargaliscious on Jun 29, 2017 22:10:18 GMT
Or just want changes or debuffs to very precise things in faction because they feel bitter. I will say. I would accept the Kodiak going to 14 points. Its currently a A+ jack and if it makes people that mad then I would settle for a B+ jack. Juggernaught I say suck an egg to the people that want it to be more points then it is. The maurader I can see borderline, I could raise by 2 points and give grand slam and follow up making it a much better slambot but also make it compete heavily with the Jugger and reducing spam (Or just grand slam and increase by 1 point). Marauder: lose siege weapons, 11 points. See what I mean?!?
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Post by Guest on Jun 29, 2017 22:11:32 GMT
We must reduce all field allowences to zero! Then every list will be perfectly balanced! Yes, this seems to be the solution all the players in my area settled on.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jun 29, 2017 22:13:41 GMT
I see what you mean. No point in being fair when the opponent isn't.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 29, 2017 22:16:15 GMT
I see what you mean. No point in being fair when the opponent isn't. I thought your suggestions were pretty good, Rowdy.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Jun 29, 2017 22:21:27 GMT
Lol, I suggested losing a rule the marauder should never have had and a 1 point increase. Calm yourselves down.
The marauder is undercosted, you don't *need* to have a Heavy at the 10 points slot. The problem I have with the marauder is that for its cost it is effective against all targets in the game. Vs infantry it can often work out some value slams, vs heavies it gets value slams and vs colossals it kills them as it hits as hard as the butcher does at a Pow 16 weapon master.
The marauder does more with 1 focus than the juggernaut does, so it still has a niche even if they are similarly costed.
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Post by pangurban on Jun 29, 2017 22:25:50 GMT
Don't ruin my 25 Shredder Abby 2 and 12 units of Blight wasps under Thagrosh 2 with your FA nonsense. It's not a bug, it's a feature. This literally cannot be said with any level of certainty or evidence. Never has PP announced that Warjack spam is not a legal way to play the game. If that were the case FA restrictions would already be instated on Warjacks. Please re-read my quote and think about it in relation to what you replied with. Nobody said that jackspam or beastspam is "not a legal way to play the game." The fact that jackspam or beastspam is a legal way to play the game is, in some instances, a problem. This interesting "feature" lead to the Karchev 14x Mad Dog spam army that got a way-too-hard nerf. One of the fun ones from Mk2 that flew under the radar (and apparently still is) is the Nemo2 11x Charger army - you get a free journeyman and free Squire with the Heavy Metal theme army. I'm not sure if your Shredder-spam or Wasp-spam is all that much of a problem since they don't have the resilience of the Mad Dog or the Charger. That's part of the reason why I'm not in favor of an across-the-board FA for all warjacks and all warbeasts. That doesn't mean jack or beast spam is a problem though. It means that a particular combo of many of the same jacks/beasts with one or two specific casters/locks is a problem. There are tons of spam lists possible, and maybe a handful are problematic. Why conclude spam is a problem and put up a blanket rule that disallows all spam?
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jun 29, 2017 22:30:49 GMT
The marauder does more with 1 focus than the juggernaut does, so it still has a niche even if they are similarly costed. Lets Nerf Haley 2. I think she is pretty OP, and has rules she never was supposed to have. Lets start off by getting rid of Future sight, and Time bomb then make the feat only reduce speed by 2 and -2 defense (See Im reincorporating ime bomb into the feat). Seems fair to me. She will still have a niche in Cygnar because of Telekinesis.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 29, 2017 22:37:38 GMT
The marauder does more with 1 focus than the juggernaut does, so it still has a niche even if they are similarly costed. Lets Nerf Haley 2. I think she is pretty OP, and has rules she never was supposed to have. Lets start off by getting rid of Future sight, and Time bomb then make the feat only reduce speed by 2 and -2 defense (See Im reincorporating ime bomb into the feat). Seems fair to me. She will still have a niche in Cygnar because of Telekinesis. I didn't like that idea as much as the other one, but keep trying.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jun 29, 2017 22:43:30 GMT
I didn't like that idea as much as the other one, but keep trying. Honestly I don't play Cygnar, and my ideas might have all been terrible, but I just hate this sort of not even backseat game design. But "In another car" game design.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Jun 29, 2017 23:35:02 GMT
The marauder does more with 1 focus than the juggernaut does, so it still has a niche even if they are similarly costed. Lets Nerf Haley 2. I think she is pretty OP, and has rules she never was supposed to have. Lets start off by getting rid of Future sight, and Time bomb then make the feat only reduce speed by 2 and -2 defense (See Im reincorporating ime bomb into the feat). Seems fair to me. She will still have a niche in Cygnar because of Telekinesis. Feel free to nerf Haley 2, she's probably too good and eats up too much of a niche in Cygnar competitive pairings. Now your actual ideas are completely awful, but the basic idea I have no problem with. The marauder, though, is too much for its points cost.
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Post by Cryptix on Jun 30, 2017 0:03:10 GMT
HOW MANY TIMES DO WE NEED TO SAY TAKE YOUR KHADOR JACK BASHING TO ANOTHER THREAD
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 30, 2017 0:34:25 GMT
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Jun 30, 2017 1:07:39 GMT
Please re-read my quote and think about it in relation to what you replied with. Nobody said that jackspam or beastspam is "not a legal way to play the game." The fact that jackspam or beastspam is a legal way to play the game is, in some instances, a problem. This interesting "feature" lead to the Karchev 14x Mad Dog spam army that got a way-too-hard nerf. One of the fun ones from Mk2 that flew under the radar (and apparently still is) is the Nemo2 11x Charger army - you get a free journeyman and free Squire with the Heavy Metal theme army. I'm not sure if your Shredder-spam or Wasp-spam is all that much of a problem since they don't have the resilience of the Mad Dog or the Charger. That's part of the reason why I'm not in favor of an across-the-board FA for all warjacks and all warbeasts. That doesn't mean jack or beast spam is a problem though. It means that a particular combo of many of the same jacks/beasts with one or two specific casters/locks is a problem. There are tons of spam lists possible, and maybe a handful are problematic. Why conclude spam is a problem and put up a blanket rule that disallows all spam? ^ someone understood what i was going for. 1 - not all spam is the same level of NPE or over powered. No one complains about shredder spam because is a goofball list that's obnoxious but not competitive. Not all spam is created equal; so why should a "one size fits all" approach be taken? address the models that create the problem. And to appease Khadorans; do it in the lightest way possible and keep things as intact as possible. 2 - "they are playing the rules outside of the intent of the game to win" is very, very, close to saying that jack spam is not appropriate to the game. You seem to be implying they are abusing the rules or exploiting a loophole. So no, not entirely illegal. But a very harsh statement. Again, I hate Khador jackspam as much as the next non-Khador main. But there are 2 distinct experiences i fall back on. That being I own Khador, I have 6 juggernauts, 4 berserkers, etc... I can go so far as to proxy marauder spam. But I know that it is a NPE. I don't want that for any one I play. I have enough compassion to know that something is not fun. That's not to say it's overpowered. 2 totally different concepts. On the flip side of the coin, I play Legion as a main and I know above all other truths. no matter what I field, I LOSE against jack spam. I assassinate or I hand over my models bit by bit. Though I can work through it. It is NEVER fun.
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