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Post by c0deb1ue on Jun 30, 2017 15:29:21 GMT
Some people are looking to run double vessel lists, some still think its a waste of time and all sorts in between Regardless of what anyone thinks of the Vessel though, it is undeniably better than it was pre CID for the same amount of points I'd call that a net gain Only way to find out is to play it a bunch I'm erring on the side of caution and hoping that it is playable rather than just better than before...
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Post by flamigant on Jun 30, 2017 15:45:39 GMT
It is very good but does not have the same damage output as some of the other BE's. It is still so stupid that they didnt consider putting this also in the interdiction theme list. Or why after nerfing admonisher it is still 12 inch while it should be 14.
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Post by c0deb1ue on Jun 30, 2017 15:52:22 GMT
It is very good but does not have the same damage output as some of the other BE's. It is still so stupid that they didnt consider putting this also in the interdiction theme list. Or why after nerfing admonisher it is still 12 inch while it should be 14. It is in the interdiction list I thought!? Yeah the drop in range is a bummer especially with the nerf and SPD4. The gun ain't as good as it's a hybrid support gun platform as well though the only engine with a huge kill yourself downside.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Jun 30, 2017 16:09:52 GMT
It is very good but does not have the same damage output as some of the other BE's. It is still so stupid that they didnt consider putting this also in the interdiction theme list. Or why after nerfing admonisher it is still 12 inch while it should be 14. It is in the interdiction list I thought!? Yeah the drop in range is a bummer especially with the nerf and SPD4. The gun ain't as good as it's a hybrid support gun platform as well though the only engine with a huge kill yourself downside. It is, it's the scrutator tag that puts voj in interdiction.
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Post by flamigant on Jul 1, 2017 6:38:21 GMT
I guess what i meant to say is that it should have counted towards free points.
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Post by c0deb1ue on Jul 1, 2017 7:45:09 GMT
I guess what i meant to say is that it should have counted towards free points. Yeah that would have been pretty excellent... or Gravus being a possible free solo - pretty sure his equivalent is in one of the ret themes. Off-topic very briefly but making Gravus as a possible free solo would have effectively given free knockdown i.e. Something for infantry and a good point bonus to counteract the split jack/infantry nature of the theme. The Vessal should work well with all the weaponmasters regardless and post CID medium infantry
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Post by flamigant on Jul 1, 2017 14:11:08 GMT
If the VoJ would have counted towards free points you would have seen him in Harbinger/Kreoss 1/2 interdiction lists.
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xernal
Demo Gamer
Check yourself before you wrack yourself
Posts: 16
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Post by xernal on Jul 1, 2017 16:09:37 GMT
ToMs main drawback is that he uses recursion, which has had big bogeyman (HR and ghost fleet) that people have teched for. If you can avoid lists with heavy rfp, you can pull off recursion levels similar to ghost fleet.
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Post by greytemplar on Jul 1, 2017 16:45:55 GMT
Yes. The problem is that recursion at its base level has been nerfed so hard that it's often not worth it. Since you can't attack the turn you come back, your opponent has a whole turn to put them down again.
IMO, recursion should have had its baseline be "the returned model must forfeit it's movement OR action" instead of always being it's action. So you would have a choice, and at least get some work out of your revived dudes.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 1, 2017 17:10:15 GMT
IMO, recursion should have had its baseline be "the returned model must forfeit it's movement OR action" instead of always being it's action. So you would have a choice, and at least get some work out of your revived dudes. Actually, with stuff like the Cephalyx Prep for surgery, it would mean an eternally growing and absorbing Recursion in 1 round.
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Post by greytemplar on Jul 1, 2017 17:20:57 GMT
Care to elaborate? Not very familiar with the new Cephalyx.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 1, 2017 17:23:31 GMT
Care to elaborate? Not very familiar with the new Cephalyx. Because they are their own recursion Unit, they would effectively go on forever because they don't use corpse tokens.
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Post by greytemplar on Jul 1, 2017 17:26:32 GMT
What is the exact steps here? How is there "infinite" recursion?
And like I said, I just think it should be a baseline. Some specific types of recursion could have more strict restrictions.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 1, 2017 17:42:38 GMT
What is the exact steps here? How is there "infinite" recursion? And like I said, I just think it should be a baseline. Some specific types of recursion could have more strict restrictions. They add a guy for every guy they personally kill. That guy activates and kills anoth and so the process continues. Regardless recursion still has allot of value even if its not actionful. Time taken to kill the recurred is still resources taken.
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Post by greytemplar on Jul 1, 2017 17:54:33 GMT
Ok, I see. But that would actually be very hard to accomplish. You would have to have the placed guy have another dude in his melee range, and the guy you place off of that would also have to have a dude in his melee range. And all your attacks would have to hit and kill. Drudges aren't exactly champs. It would basically require the perfect storm of an opponent who clumps his dudes together, and you enjoy almost total success in hitting and killing.
It would still have the hard limit of the unit's command range.
Some recursion can have value without actions. And I definitely wouldn't say it's "a lot of value". A lot of value would be bringing dudes back with full functionality, like HR's feat. I'm just wanting some middle of the road stuff. Let my KE that Testament revives get a swing if they get brought back in melee, since they're almost certainly dying next turn because victim stats.
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