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Post by Sarcastastic on Jun 30, 2017 4:44:02 GMT
I think the thing I've noticed the most is losing animi buffs limited our battlegroup choices severely. One of my favourite Mk2 lists was Grissel1 or 2 running a storm troll, pyre troll, and impaler. No dires. Just throw them buffs onto the Longriders to handle whatever situation, and snipe her own gun while Fenns did their thing. In mk3, I don't think you can run without heavies competitively, and that seems to bottleneck our list-making I feel.
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Jun 30, 2017 7:30:02 GMT
I'm still skeptical about United Kriels being that helpful, but I'd love to be wrong. I can't envision any Troll list without rage being viable, which means you're taking a Mountain King. I'm currently playing a Gunny POD that I'll be looking forward to modifying to a UK list. Can I just clarify. When you say United Kriels do you mean the Kriel Company theme that was part of the Battle Engine CID? It's called Kriel Company because it's the cygnar influenced modern army parts of trolls that Gunnbjorn has inspired and trained.
If I'm not mistaken United Kriels is the named for the nomadic nation of combined trolls that Madrak leads.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Jun 30, 2017 11:58:33 GMT
I'm still skeptical about United Kriels being that helpful, but I'd love to be wrong. I can't envision any Troll list without rage being viable, which means you're taking a Mountain King. I'm currently playing a Gunny POD that I'll be looking forward to modifying to a UK list. Depending on exactly how Kriel Company shakes out, you could build at least one list without Rage- Grim 1, designed to take down Cryx and Legion. Toby Nathan did well with a Madrak 3 list that had only an Impaler, Bouncer, and Pyre, and a bunch of infantry. The idea was to run him as a "super solo" fueled by those three animi. Perhaps that list could be adapted from Band to KC?
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A-Mo
Junior Strategist
Posts: 204
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Post by A-Mo on Jun 30, 2017 15:08:21 GMT
I'm still skeptical about United Kriels being that helpful, but I'd love to be wrong. I can't envision any Troll list without rage being viable, which means you're taking a Mountain King. I'm currently playing a Gunny POD that I'll be looking forward to modifying to a UK list. Can I just clarify. When you say United Kriels do you mean the Kriel Company theme that was part of the Battle Engine CID? It's called Kriel Company because it's the cygnar influenced modern army parts of trolls that Gunnbjorn has inspired and trained.
If I'm not mistaken United Kriels is the named for the nomadic nation of combined trolls that Madrak leads.
Yes, Kriel Company. Not sure why I always want to call it United Kriels.
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A-Mo
Junior Strategist
Posts: 204
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Post by A-Mo on Jun 30, 2017 15:17:04 GMT
I'm still skeptical about United Kriels being that helpful, but I'd love to be wrong. I can't envision any Troll list without rage being viable, which means you're taking a Mountain King. I'm currently playing a Gunny POD that I'll be looking forward to modifying to a UK list. Depending on exactly how Kriel Company shakes out, you could build at least one list without Rage- Grim 1, designed to take down Cryx and Legion. Toby Nathan did well with a Madrak 3 list that had only an Impaler, Bouncer, and Pyre, and a bunch of infantry. The idea was to run him as a "super solo" fueled by those three animi. Perhaps that list could be adapted from Band to KC? Sure, they're are some possibilities for non-rage lists, but it feels like you're going to be facing some pretty gnarly list chicken situations in competitive settings. I'll happily take off my grumpy pants if proved wrong.
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Post by allinontrolls on Jun 30, 2017 15:41:19 GMT
A common theme my opponents say after games we've played... "Man, I thought Trolls was a bottom faction." I have literally heard that 5-6 times. I've gotten people to say that Doom2 is "broken", Grim1 is "oppressively good", Ragnor is "Bullshit". There's even some people who flat refuse to play my Callandra. If you're struggling with Trolls, it's not the faction. The player is always way more important than the faction for sure but trolls are not in a good spot. We got 1 good playstyle and that's armor with either shooting or melee. So we are really easy to tech against. We did not win a big tournament in a while and you have to go way back on discount games to find a troll Being in the Top3. Alot of podcasts rank trolls on the bottom of all factions. I still believe the next cid will bring us back.
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
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Post by skurkious on Jun 30, 2017 19:04:38 GMT
Yes but how much of the troll's current performance is players shying away from them because they are so run down on the web? I feel like we have 5-6 casters that I feel are very competitive and several more that have very good matchups. I've found that several of our maligned light beasts have been successful for me on the table. We have good heavies(even though there aren't many to choose from). We have amazing support pieces and 1 or 2 extremely good units(warders and fennblades are still some of the best units in the game to me). We need to break the group think that PoD is the only way to play and try new things. I avoided Bearka for months because everyone just constantly ran him down but when I finally put him on the table (with several list builds including a variety of elemental lights) he actually really surprised me. Sure he has his weaknesses and limitations but his spell list and feat are still quite effective if you know how to use him. And this was against several players running their tournament lists for practice and I didn't get any clearly one sided matchups in my favor.
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Post by allinontrolls on Jul 1, 2017 5:38:08 GMT
First we should discuss of which type of game we are talking about. If we talk about bringing a troll list to a local game Store to play some games. I think no one will argue that trolls are able to win. Playing in a 2 list tournament where people play their anti armor list or a list Built to beat trolls is a complete different story. On a high competitive level trolls are struggling. Building 2 lists that are able to deal with ghost fleet, heavy metal, skorne, khador, f2 oracles is not easy.
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Post by Trollock on Jul 1, 2017 8:51:39 GMT
Yes but how much of the troll's current performance is players shying away from them because they are so run down on the web? I feel like we have 5-6 casters that I feel are very competitive and several more that have very good matchups. I've found that several of our maligned light beasts have been successful for me on the table. We have good heavies(even though there aren't many to choose from). We have amazing support pieces and 1 or 2 extremely good units(warders and fennblades are still some of the best units in the game to me). We need to break the group think that PoD is the only way to play and try new things. I avoided Bearka for months because everyone just constantly ran him down but when I finally put him on the table (with several list builds including a variety of elemental lights) he actually really surprised me. Sure he has his weaknesses and limitations but his spell list and feat are still quite effective if you know how to use him. And this was against several players running their tournament lists for practice and I didn't get any clearly one sided matchups in my favor. 5-6 casters? I feel like we only have 2 casters that are NOT competitive (madrak 1 and borka 2). I feel like i can bring any one of the others in a 2 list pairing assuming i have made a good pair for them. Warlock diversity is not our problem imo. Only having one playable theme is. Even the versions of BoH that are played competitively usually do not play the "intended" list (multi wound spam), but focus on the other benefits of the theme (+2" deployment and takedown-deluxe on fennblades).
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Post by allinontrolls on Jul 1, 2017 20:58:47 GMT
Yes we have alot of good casters but we struggle playing infantry. In my games a lot of the time 5 box infantry dies like single wound infantry. Our cavalry is one of the worst in game.
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mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
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Post by mattmcd on Jul 1, 2017 21:32:07 GMT
I do think we have a few decent units, they're just unavailable in themes and therefore are much more difficult to run. The rest however, I completely agree.
Fire Eaters, Fennblades & Sluggers are all very table worthy. Ghost fleet would hate to see scattergunners with a sorcerer. If infantry lists come back strong those guys are no joke.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Jul 2, 2017 17:27:03 GMT
I do think we have a few decent units, they're just unavailable in themes and therefore are much more difficult to run. The rest however, I completely agree. Fire Eaters, Fennblades & Sluggers are all very table worthy. Ghost fleet would hate to see scattergunners with a sorcerer. If infantry lists come back strong those guys are no joke. If ADR wasn't so valuable to me ATM, I have a quite silly Madrak3 list that mostly lives off of spellpiercer to deal with stuff like Ghost Fleet and Cephalyx.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Jul 2, 2017 21:26:50 GMT
I do think we have a few decent units, they're just unavailable in themes and therefore are much more difficult to run. The rest however, I completely agree. Fire Eaters, Fennblades & Sluggers are all very table worthy. Ghost fleet would hate to see scattergunners with a sorcerer. If infantry lists come back strong those guys are no joke. If ADR wasn't so valuable to me ATM, I have a quite silly Madrak3 list that mostly lives off of spellpiercer to deal with stuff like Ghost Fleet and Cephalyx. Anything like this? conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0DgP0r03036G6Gezez6t7r090Trollbloods Army - 60 / 75 points [Theme] Kriel Company (CID) !!! You are using a pre-release theme. (Madrak 3) Madrak, Great Chieftain [+29] - Dire Troll Bomber [19] - Pyre Troll [9] - Pyre Troll [9] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Scattergunners (max) [14] - Scattergunner Officer & Standard [4] Trollkin Sluggers (max) [10] Trollkin Sluggers (max) [10] Not sure how to finish out. War Wagon would work if it counts toward free points I think.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Jul 2, 2017 22:03:00 GMT
I think I had only one pyre Troll and somehow fit double War Wagon in there. I also had thumpers as my freebies instead of Fel Callers.
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mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
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Post by mattmcd on Jul 2, 2017 22:06:41 GMT
I like the scattergunners as a min unit + UA. They clear entire units of single box that way. Add a War wagon, another solo and a few freebies. You'd get tons of freebies with that list in KC. Nice!
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