spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
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Post by spideredd on Mar 9, 2017 14:30:06 GMT
It was a downward spiral since they hired valerie. I'm not so sure that all of the bad changes can put on Valerie because, if I recall correctly, the press-gang was not in her area of oversight and the change to the forums to me seems as though it came from higher. I thought that change was inevitable the moment that they hired Valerie and I'm honestly surprised that it took this long.
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Post by ClusterFSCK on Mar 9, 2017 15:05:54 GMT
blog.legalsolutions.thomsonreuters.com/top-legal-news/magic-card-game-judges-sue-for-lost-wages-claim-to-be-employees/ - For some background on the WoTC/MtG Judges lawsuit, and why it may apply to PGs. This is similar to the UO Councillors lawsuit that was settled after the CA judge approved its class action status. Although the class action filing didn't set a binding legal precedent, the judge obvious thought it had enough merit to proceed to trial on the grounds that setting out requirements for behavior, providing compensations, and requiring a certain amount of activity in a time period was arguably an employer/employee relationship and that back wages may be deserved.
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Post by cybrid on Mar 9, 2017 15:21:37 GMT
blog.legalsolutions.thomsonreuters.com/top-legal-news/magic-card-game-judges-sue-for-lost-wages-claim-to-be-employees/ - For some background on the WoTC/MtG Judges lawsuit, and why it may apply to PGs. This is similar to the UO Councillors lawsuit that was settled after the CA judge approved its class action status. Although the class action filing didn't set a binding legal precedent, the judge obvious thought it had enough merit to proceed to trial on the grounds that setting out requirements for behavior, providing compensations, and requiring a certain amount of activity in a time period was arguably an employer/employee relationship and that back wages may be deserved. Pretty interesting read there. There are a lot of similarities between the MTG judges and press gangers. However, I thought PGs were compensated with PG points that they could use to purchase things from PP. All in all it probably wasn't any one factor that lead to this but a number of things.
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spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
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Post by spideredd on Mar 9, 2017 15:41:59 GMT
I think that the timing is just off. PP really shouldn't have cancelled the Press-Ganger program this close to changing the forums in the ways that they did. I think that the writing was on the wall for both for a while, if what I hear is true, but to do both at once doesn't look good.
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Post by Aegis on Mar 9, 2017 16:10:06 GMT
I'll step again to remember that while expressing your opinion on the recent decisions of PP is absolutely welcome, personal accusations or witch hunts, expecially ones without any kind of proof, aren't.
We have absolutely no way to know who in Privateer Press advocated those changes, or even if it was a single person or a coral decision form the staff, so trying to speculate on who is to blame for this is totally useless, and risks to expose to public blame people that maybe would even agree with you, but were forced by their position into following a company directive.
Haight already kindly gave us an insider PoW, that seems to point out that Valerie is unlikely to be the one who pressed on these changes, and that she was just the messanger, so this polemic has even less sense.
Privateer Press is a company, and is responsabile as a company of their decisions. I don't care if it was a decision of Matt Willson himself, an idea suggested by one of the members of the dev or community teams, or if it was something suggested by an external consultation. Privateer Press as a company is the one who made those decisions, and every support/claps/blame derived from those should be directed at the company, not to a single person, expecially basing on speculations.
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Mar 9, 2017 16:24:00 GMT
It was a downward spiral since they hired valerie. I'm not so sure that all of the bad changes can put on Valerie because, if I recall correctly, the press-gang was not in her area of oversight and the change to the forums to me seems as though it came from higher. I thought that change was inevitable the moment that they hired Valerie and I'm honestly surprised that it took this long. Valerie was not the Press Gang's handler, never was. I can confirm that.
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on Mar 9, 2017 16:26:07 GMT
It was a downward spiral since they hired valerie. Bans, locking threads, killing community without reason or explanation. I defended PP's every move including free ruder policy, regardless of not having a store around, but now I'm done with this company. If they don't want to have a community I'm moving to a different game and I sincerely hope that they will register losses in sales. Maybe then someone in HQ will realise that community and consumer friendly approach from the past was the backbone of their success. While I absolutely noticed this as well, again, she could be a symptom, not the cause. Based on Haight's defense of her position, I'm inclined to accept the latter. It doesn't really matter whose fault it is at this stage anyways though. Even if whoever was responsible suddenly resigned, there's no reason to think anything would actually change. Like their newest faction says, they'll reap what they sow.
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Post by ElaraIsBae on Mar 9, 2017 16:26:59 GMT
blog.legalsolutions.thomsonreuters.com/top-legal-news/magic-card-game-judges-sue-for-lost-wages-claim-to-be-employees/ - For some background on the WoTC/MtG Judges lawsuit, and why it may apply to PGs. This is similar to the UO Councillors lawsuit that was settled after the CA judge approved its class action status. Although the class action filing didn't set a binding legal precedent, the judge obvious thought it had enough merit to proceed to trial on the grounds that setting out requirements for behavior, providing compensations, and requiring a certain amount of activity in a time period was arguably an employer/employee relationship and that back wages may be deserved. Pretty interesting read there. There are a lot of similarities between the MTG judges and press gangers. However, I thought PGs were compensated with PG points that they could use to purchase things from PP. All in all it probably wasn't any one factor that lead to this but a number of things. The compensation of points could be used to establish an employer-employee relationship as they were compensated but, the compensation doesn't meet federal wage standards. I was an event organizer when I worked for a LGS and this was a huge concern for us. All it takes is 1 disgruntled or crazy person and suddenly things go boom.
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Post by sideshowlucifer on Mar 9, 2017 16:37:26 GMT
Well I was upset as a PG'er when I lost all my points I saved after Biggie left. I took a break for awhile but then came back and struggled to get the game going again in my area. I'm not really surprised at the email I got, but it is a bad direction I think. I will still be asked to run the events here more than likely since I usually do. This just all points to that new demographic direction I feel the company is taking. SR17 will likely be the deciding factor on whether I sit out the edition or not.
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Post by greytemplar on Mar 9, 2017 16:38:25 GMT
Yeah, I don't think Valerie had anything to do with the more stringent atmosphere, she was getting paid to follow orders from higher up. Don't shoot the messenger(unless he's a filthy swan).
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Post by charlzheimer on Mar 9, 2017 16:56:08 GMT
our local store is completely ignoring the termination of the pressgang initiative.
our local pressgangers will still organise pretty much everything and if they want event stuff they'll do it via the store...
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on Mar 9, 2017 17:10:29 GMT
our local store is completely ignoring the termination of the pressgang initiative. our local pressgangers will still organise pretty much everything and if they want event stuff they'll do it via the store... I'm hoping my local situation remains the same too. Our tournament organizer hasn't been the store owner for a long time and while the store owner has always supported the game, I don't think he would even be inclined to pick up the duty of running events.
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kaos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 268
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Post by kaos on Mar 9, 2017 17:31:34 GMT
Well I don't think he technically need to run them. He can say "John is gonna run it, i'll get the price pack". It depends how much bureaucracy will be involved in this.
for example X-wing tournament packs are quite easy to get and stores five them to us sometime when we want to run some events at our clubs.
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Post by phantasmagorium on Mar 9, 2017 17:56:54 GMT
As a (former? ) PG, I can say that I'll still be supporting my area community, but I'm certainly going to be doing less at the stores where it was already challenging to get them to work with me - I have been having troubles getting tournament time scheduled with them since about the time Mk3 dropped, and now I'm probably not going to bother. Instead, I'll probably just help out at the shop with the largest congregation of players, which already has a fantastic guy overseeing it, and a store owner who is much more friendly to the miniatures community in general.
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Post by Jabberwokk on Mar 9, 2017 18:02:01 GMT
Pretty interesting read there. There are a lot of similarities between the MTG judges and press gangers. However, I thought PGs were compensated with PG points that they could use to purchase things from PP. All in all it probably wasn't any one factor that lead to this but a number of things. The compensation of points could be used to establish an employer-employee relationship as they were compensated but, the compensation doesn't meet federal wage standards. I was an event organizer when I worked for a LGS and this was a huge concern for us. All it takes is 1 disgruntled or crazy person and suddenly things go boom. Sucks. Every piece of bureaucratic nonsense comes from some idiot who sued someone over there own self inflicted idiocy. And the rest of us get punished for it. Like having to have "Hot coffee is hot" on hot coffee. "A New Mexico civil jury awarded $2.86 million to plaintiff Stella Liebeck, a 79-year-old woman who suffered third-degree burns in her pelvic region when she accidentally spilled hot coffee in her lap after purchasing it from a McDonald's restaurant." What should have happened: Judge: Your serious? No you screwed up, it's your fault, deal wit it. Case dismissed. Granny: *unintelligible whining* Judge: buh-bye. Instead we now cater to entitled brats who deliberately slip up on ketchup packages to engage in what is the new get-rich-quick-scheme/scam that is suing. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2572942/Teacher-awarded-230-000-compensation-slipping-ketchup-sachet-causing-severe-injury.html) The more people cater to it the worse life gets. I mean what's next suing God? www.nbcnews.com/id/20827350/ns/us_news-weird_news/t/nebraska-state-senator-sues-god/Oh.
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