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Post by welshhoppo on Jun 15, 2017 13:04:00 GMT
I like them. But only with Casters who can buff their damage.
I used to use them with B3 back when I ran him as my number1. Silence of death made for PS18 charges which was really nasty and could take out heavies at range.
Now I use them with Strakhov2. I've had a single Last standed Uhlan kill casters on full camp with just the mount and lance attack.
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Post by sand20go on Jun 15, 2017 14:34:29 GMT
You guys REALLY need to charge a unit of Uhlans under last stand into something. Your world will rock. You will come home to your significant other with a smile on your face and a bounce in your step. It really will alter your impact on your much maligned Horses. Wouldn't Fury or Battle Lust be better as you don't lose them at the end of the turn? Or are you getting a lot of use out of extra dice to the attack roll on impact attacks? AND the extra dice on the damage from the impact attack. AND precision strike in the Legion with Strak2. AND the opportunity for a 4 dice attack roll when Critical hit means knockdown. Yes. Your model goes away. But as others have noted, it is often times hard to keep your ulhans alive. If you use them as uber missiles the sadness of their lance rule fades into the bliss of watching them take down stormwalls or multiple heavies from across the board. that said, there is NOTHING that precludes you from dropping Last Stand before they go to attack should POW 16 get the job done.
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Post by sand20go on Jun 15, 2017 14:46:45 GMT
How many games have you actually piloted Uhlans in? Had them used against me. Stuff spreads out. Terrain and infantry and rocks get in the way (And with impact attacks your doing even less damage to jacks). I haven't ever had more than 2 impact a jack of mine. I'm ragging on them Because I ask at what point do they do something? So their survivable yes. But they don't hit very hard for the points (Thats the key word here, For the Points), and have very little retention, and are pretty vulnerable when they split up. If their not hard-hitting on an alpha, then what do I care about their speed? They get boosted attack rolls but again if their targets are Jacks that don't really care. And I didn't say BAD. I said MEH. And Meh isn't good enough for a pretty massive purchase followed by having to get more foam for storage. Im not saying they have to be powerful because their expensive. I mean at least a B- or something when Im getting a C when I have played them. Boosted attack rolls are CRITICAL (rim shot) to them and it suggests your opponent wasn't playing them right. For IFPs into Khador you have a 5/36 chance of rolling a critical hit (against Def 12 Jacks it would be 4/36) and generating the knockdown. For Uhlans the odds go up MUCH higher. Then (and this is important) lets add in precision strike (see that synergy thing). We now not only have +3 over the IFP, a greater chance to critical knockdown, Repo But also can direct the damage into column 4 and have a not trivially chance with ONE Uhlan on the charge taking said jack out of commission (no cortex, no allocation, no shake, no do anything important next turn). This gets EVEN MORE SILLY under last stand. Now I am rolling 3 dice damage on the impact attack if I can get it, 3 dice attack rolls on the impact attacks if I need to get through your infantry screen, and now 4 dice, precision strike with the obligatory fangnick, into column 4. With a 4 dice attack roll I am almost guaranteed to take out to fill in columns 4 and 5, knock out your cortex and all for 1 model out of the 5. Nothing in Last Stand says I have to make attacks.....so the rest of the Uhlans are ready to do it to you again next turn. A neat trick is to run the rest of the unit someplace, charge with the leader, have him die to last stand, Promote back in the cluster and everything good and ready to do the same thing - perhaps all the way on the other flank next turn. Goooooodddddd times. Now are they as good as the Stormlances. No. And I think that is a problem with the Cygnar design space that is a much longer and more difficult discussion. But Uhlans, especially under a group of casters (Strak2 at the top but also Butcher 1, Sorcsha 2, Vlad2, and arguably Butcher 2 and Strak1) get a ton of work done. You need to drop them on the table and see what they do. They are one of our few remaining viable "glass cannons" in MK3 and they can be a ton of fun to run.
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Post by Netherby on Jun 15, 2017 14:48:39 GMT
So what the heck are they good into? Well, it's good to buff their damage If you aren't buffing their damage then they are good for killing lights, high def or arm solos and knocking stuff down. If you're buffing their survivability then they can be very good at jamming and holding objectives. Non weapon masters can't usually kill them even if they get the charge, requiring the commitment of a heavy which will not remove more than 2 per turn. But you should just buff their damage... I'm not going to argue that they are great, but they really are not 'meh' and fill some roles that other stuff just can't.
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Post by Havock on Jun 15, 2017 22:37:31 GMT
Uhlans are very good at being absolute Female Doges to transport.
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Post by chickenslayer on Jun 16, 2017 0:45:12 GMT
Uhlans are ok until you get randomly screwed by the Lance rule. Then you just want to tear your hair out. Also they have to charge, which makes them super inflexible.
Basically in a car park fight with no movement tricks on your opponent's side of the table, they're ok if expensive. If you can magically get two charges out of them and have the ideal victims to pick on, you're living the dream but they at least will pull some weight. Otherwise, pass.
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Post by tapecrawler on Jun 16, 2017 4:22:44 GMT
It's interesting that maybe three or four months ago everybody seemed to advocate them and run them as the only "infantry" (that sticks in my craw, they're cavalry - dammit!). What has changed so much, is it because more infantry units are being fielded?
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Post by Netherby on Jun 16, 2017 4:47:19 GMT
Did people advocate them? I don't remember that I'm pretty sure four months ago the only infantry any one was taking was the Rifle Corps.
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Post by tapecrawler on Jun 16, 2017 4:58:48 GMT
Maybe it was longer ago. It was while the Khador faction forum was still open on the PP site. It was when rockets first started getting popular. I'd forgotten about rifles . . . I don't have them and my WGI are still in the box. 😔
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Post by tesoe on Jun 16, 2017 5:29:37 GMT
Maybe it was longer ago. It was while the Khador faction forum was still open on the PP site. It was when rockets first started getting popular. I'd forgotten about rifles . . . I don't have them and my WGI are still in the box. 😔 Well your WGI can stay in the box. Their basically garbage after the changes to them and WGRC in MK3.
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Post by Netherby on Jun 16, 2017 8:07:20 GMT
You're so totally wrong about WGI, they are really good. Especially at 10 points.
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Post by borderprince on Jun 16, 2017 9:09:18 GMT
If you aren't buffing their damage then they are good for killing lights, high def or arm solos. Which can be very handy roles in some lists. Taking out light jacks/beasts before they get into melee threat range (or even some of the higher-DEF, lower-ARM heavies: Circle, some Legion beasts, Archidon, some merc jacks) is helpful. I've found them good at threatening Thorn, which is very valuable against a Haley list. You're so totally wrong about WGI, they are really good. Especially at 10 points. Off-topic, but agreed. POW14 CRA shots are great. I'm starting to think about them with Strakhov2 and Last Stand too.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jun 16, 2017 11:11:59 GMT
It's interesting that maybe three or four months ago everybody seemed to advocate them and run them as the only "infantry" (that sticks in my craw, they're cavalry - dammit!). What has changed so much, is it because more infantry units are being fielded? Despite people badmouthing Uhlans in this thread there is still no better Fury/Battlelust/V2 feat/hof delivery service. Everything bad said about Uhlans is also true about mows and fangs except they have even more problems.
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Post by Netherby on Jun 16, 2017 14:50:14 GMT
It's actually not as difficult to get a double charge out of Uhlans as you may think either. But if your opponent can shut down their charge, then they are very close to dead points and sadly a lot of the popular lists can do exactly that
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Post by critfreeze on Jun 20, 2017 6:11:21 GMT
I'm biased towards Uhlans simply because they are such cool models. But I will also say that I've gotten some great uses out of them in game. As others have noted, they are best with a damage buff, but I think these guys have a really unique role in Khador because of their incredible SPD 8 and Reposition 3. That kind of threat range is unique in our faction, and I like to use Uhlans to escort my slower Warjacks, heavily punishing anything that tries to interfere. I've found they combine well with Widowmakers to create a frustrating situation for the opponent where no avenue of approach is safe.
My greatest personal victory with Uhlans was the day I charged them into a Desert Hydra under Battle Lust and Irusk1's feat, one-rounding the gargossal and then repositioning into a huge ARM19 wall (with 4+ Tough rolls) across the table.
What I like about them is the way they play so well with just about any of our casters' Upkeep buffs. Fury, Occultation, Quicken, Hand of Fate, Iron Flesh, etc. all allow them to quickly break away from your battlegroup and function autonomously.
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