Greed
Demo Gamer
Posts: 12 
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Post by Greed on Jun 15, 2017 5:25:57 GMT
I am running Uhlans with lots of differents casters (from Kozlov to V2 and Z1) and the main issue I face is their size: 5 large bases that should move together. With SR2017 amount of terrain (and huge warhammer terrain pieces in my meta) it is just very hard to move them around the table and keep good positioning for Wall of Steel and charges.
But as long as you can deal with that problem they start to shine - just buff them and smash them into opponent's face. Currently I'm waiting for my Sk2 - they must be really great with him.
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Post by Havock on Jun 15, 2017 5:47:21 GMT
The salt on the swan side of things is dumb for this reason.
Right now in their 'nerfed' state what they have is a unit:
1- that charges as hard as ours
2- that is casually as survivable as ours if not moreso
3- that also happens to have a gun.
But yeah, Uhlans are tricky; they require buffs to work well; they are expensive but Fury/spd/vlad2's feat are also worth that much mroe on them.
Still, hella expensive unit.
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Post by haraldtorvatn on Jun 15, 2017 6:23:46 GMT
Have stormlances been nerfed? How,and where can I find that nerf?
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jun 15, 2017 6:41:00 GMT
Alright but its pretty much much harder to lump more then 1 uhlan per target then like 3 Iron Fangs against 1. And One Pow 16 Charge with a Pow 12 backup will not really do allot on...Well just about any target. I mean its not "Cripple" material even.
Sans a Cryx Jack that you wanna knock down, their damage isn't impressive enough for 4 points. I don't compare buffs because on a damage buff curve they actually fall behind.
Their Main Targets seem to be jacks, that they can't really kill without both a buff and at least 3 or so hits, and if they fail to kill then they die the next turn very easily.
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Post by Netherby on Jun 15, 2017 7:00:41 GMT
Have stormlances been nerfed? How,and where can I find that nerf? It's just in CID and it's a nerf to Laddermore swapping to Vet. Leader instead of giving them +2 damage on their gun. Not a big deal really. Uhlans are NOT good to put into heavy jacks unless you are buffing their damage. They are amazing into typical Circle stated type beasts, into other Cav and can't be removed easily by a lot of stuff. Your typical heavy will have trouble killing more than 2 in a turn when loaded with focus and if it's knocked down it may even fail to achieve that. Uhlans aren't the obvious best infantry in faction, but they have a role and are 'pretty good'. |
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jun 15, 2017 7:04:15 GMT
You guys REALLY need to charge a unit of Uhlans under last stand into something. Your world will rock. You will come home to your significant other with a smile on your face and a bounce in your step. It really will alter your impact on your much maligned Horses. Wouldn't Fury or Battle Lust be better as you don't lose them at the end of the turn? Or are you getting a lot of use out of extra dice to the attack roll on impact attacks? |
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jun 15, 2017 7:12:03 GMT
It's just in CID and it's a nerf to Laddermore swapping to Vet. Leader instead of giving them +2 damage on their gun. Not a big deal really. They also lost an e-leap on the gun but gained +1 Pow on the lance. So what the heck are they good into? |
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wags
Junior Strategist
Posts: 102
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Post by wags on Jun 15, 2017 9:57:08 GMT
Alright but its pretty much much harder to lump more then 1 uhlan per target then like 3 Iron Fangs against 1. And One Pow 16 Charge with a Pow 12 backup will not really do allot on...Well just about any target. I mean its not "Cripple" material even. Sans a Cryx Jack that you wanna knock down, their damage isn't impressive enough for 4 points. I don't compare buffs because on a damage buff curve they actually fall behind. Their Main Targets seem to be jacks, that they can't really kill without both a buff and at least 3 or so hits, and if they fail to kill then they die the next turn very easily. How many games have you actually piloted Uhlans in? Because that's patently untrue, it's not that hard to get 3 uhlans onto one target normally. Suggesting that you could only ever get 1 is silly. I get it if Cav aren't your thing, but it seems like you're theory crafting and making stuff up about a unit without actually putting any table time in with them. Being down on Uhlans because they can't take down a heavy without a damage buff is silly as IFP have exactly the same problem. Sans a damage buff IFP aren't taking out a heavy either. IFP can sort of swarm and tarpit after a charge, but at def 12 single wound they are likely dying to the jack they just hit as well. Uhlan's and IFP have some cross over in roles, but they also offer different options. IFP are good in their staying power due to more bodies, and those bodies can leverage things like battle lust over time. But they are also quite susceptible on the approach with being single wound and like uhlans their ability to do work off the charge isn't that great. Even with CMA, when you're only rolling 2 dice, you're doing chip damage against heavy armor. I do think there is value into the threat extension and boosted attack rolls of the Cav. I also think there is value in the bodies you get in a unit of IFP to force more activations to deal with them. Frankly both are good tools to have and you're doing a disservice to your list building by completely discounting one or the other. |
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jun 15, 2017 10:08:10 GMT
How many games have you actually piloted Uhlans in? Had them used against me. Stuff spreads out. Terrain and infantry and rocks get in the way (And with impact attacks your doing even less damage to jacks). I haven't ever had more than 2 impact a jack of mine. I'm ragging on them Because I ask at what point do they do something? So their survivable yes. But they don't hit very hard for the points (Thats the key word here, For the Points), and have very little retention, and are pretty vulnerable when they split up. If their not hard-hitting on an alpha, then what do I care about their speed? They get boosted attack rolls but again if their targets are Jacks that don't really care. And I didn't say BAD. I said MEH. And Meh isn't good enough for a pretty massive purchase followed by having to get more foam for storage. Im not saying they have to be powerful because their expensive. I mean at least a B- or something when Im getting a C when I have played them. |
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Post by kovnikninehouse on Jun 15, 2017 10:22:36 GMT
Under Strak2 they can hold/contest a zone pretty well with IR on them plus their speed to get there
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wags
Junior Strategist
Posts: 102
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Post by wags on Jun 15, 2017 11:19:45 GMT
How many games have you actually piloted Uhlans in? Had them used against me. Stuff spreads out. Terrain and infantry and rocks get in the way (And with impact attacks your doing even less damage to jacks). I haven't ever had more than 2 impact a jack of mine. I'm ragging on them Because I ask at what point do they do something? So their survivable yes. But they don't hit very hard for the points (Thats the key word here, For the Points), and have very little retention, and are pretty vulnerable when they split up. If their not hard-hitting on an alpha, then what do I care about their speed? They get boosted attack rolls but again if their targets are Jacks that don't really care. And I didn't say BAD. I said MEH. And Meh isn't good enough for a pretty massive purchase followed by having to get more foam for storage. Im not saying they have to be powerful because their expensive. I mean at least a B- or something when Im getting a C when I have played them. So you haven't had any table time piloting them. I'd say you should really give them a proxy before forming such a strong opinion on them but I'm getting the sense that that's not what you want to hear. |
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Jun 15, 2017 11:43:13 GMT
I love Uhlans! Maybe reality doesn't exist in my world, but the "meh" stats on how they perform does not mesh with my experiences. I have had several lists where I run 2 full units along with a IFK and Markov and they are devastating! I can, and have gotten, two Uhlans to charge and impact a warjack, with an additional 2 charging the same Warjack, without buffs doing almost 30 boxes of precision striking, therefore taking out Cortex, Weapons or Movement and almost certainly knocking it down. Reposition one forward to block his buddies and repo the others back in B2B to do the same next turn. All of that of course is assuming I didn't get a small dice spike and wreck the thing outright. When jammed up, IFK with Markov around allows for easy clearing, heck I've charged Markov through them to Warhead the crap that's engaged with them to send them off on another killing spree. Granted bad luck can see Markov killing one with his Blast, but that's rare. The only problem I have with them is no Magic weapons, and trying to figure out if I could ever play them into Ghost Fleet etc. Oh, last point also is that as large bases they also work as a great screen for valuable models coming up the board.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jun 15, 2017 11:48:25 GMT
Well this wealth of evidence has convinced me to at least proxy them when I have the opportunity.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jun 15, 2017 12:01:48 GMT
It's easy to have 4 Uhlans on 1 heavy and with damage buff you need 3 to kill it on average. They also outthreat most heavies so they are hard counter to melee heavies.
It's generally a bad idea to play them without damage buff caster, but so is playing fangs a bad idea. Z1 with fangs is kind of an exception because her dispel can be pseudo damage buff in some cases.
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wags
Junior Strategist
Posts: 102
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Post by wags on Jun 15, 2017 12:47:52 GMT
I honestly think Zerkova was more an exception because of the way steamroller 2016 worked. Advance move gets a unit up fast, their numbers, shield wall, clouds and her feat could keep them alive long enough to get ahead on scenario and from there it's kind of that stall/jam game. I don't think it's going to work near as well in steamroller 2017 where attrition is king and you can't stall out the scenario the same way you could before. I think Jeff Everitt was playing Vlad1 rockets into heavy armor and I only saw him play Zerkova Fangs into Cryx.
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