|
|
Post by hoarlukbumshaker on Jun 4, 2017 19:37:42 GMT
So I'm new and stuff that seems obvious to others I still struggle to see.
What I'm curious about is (amongst a great many other things), is there a rule of thumb as to whether or not trolls specifically want to go first?
Obviously it will depend on your reading of the terrain but if it looks like both table edges are fairly equal do we have a preference?
Are there casters for whom the answer will broadly be different?
I just hate winning the die roll and then having no idea if I've made an horrendous tactical decision before I have even plonked any minis down.
|
|
Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724 
|
Post by Arcaux on Jun 4, 2017 21:05:17 GMT
I used to worry about whether to go first or not and then I read an article from Jarle (Clog Con winning Cygnar Player), who said that going first is the right decision almost every single time.
Since I read that, I've gone first every time I've had the chance and it's been amazing how well it's worked. Not only is going first great, because you fill the stone, but also it's one less decision to stress over or worry about. There is a thing called Decision fatigue which says that the more decisions you make the worst you get at making decisions. This is one less decision I have to make every game and it's been helping a lot!
|
|
mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
|
Post by mattmcd on Jun 4, 2017 21:30:28 GMT
The only time I would consider not going first is if I do not have access to pathfinder and terrain is a big issue, or if I have two Earthborns and there is a specific area of the board I want them to be in.
Other than that, first it is!
|
|
Robbe
Light Addition
Posts: 65
|
Post by Robbe on Jun 4, 2017 21:43:41 GMT
If you got the Stone in your list you pretty much have to go first, to have an easy start with filling it
but like Arcaux says: going first is almost always the right answer
|
|
mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
|
Post by mattmcd on Jun 4, 2017 21:54:39 GMT
If you got the Stone in your list you pretty much have to go first, to have an easy start with filling it but like Arcaux says: going first is almost always the right answer Correct. I should specify that every list I have that has two Earthborns also has a Mauler and with 45 beast points already it's always best to go in POD. With upkeeps already out for free going 2nd isn't as big of a deal as normal. |
|
|
|
Post by Trollock on Jun 5, 2017 11:21:07 GMT
I too could try and argue that going second has its charm, but in real life, i ALWAYS chose to go first if i can, and my win rate is significantly higher in the games i go first in. Go first!  SR2017 may alleviate this a little bit. If you go second you get to score first AND last if you go to 7 rounds. If you play fast enough that YOU can play 7 turns in an hour, there are only a couple of reasons why the game does not go to the full 7 rounds. 1) some one died. Probably your opponents cause trolls are hard to kill. so you win. 2) Your opponent wasnt playing fast enough and lost on death clock. 3) Some one lost on "mercy", by being at least 6 CP behind. If you got to score first, that should not have been you, right? Hence, the game should go to 7 rounds and you should have the most CP by then, cause you got to score first AND last. In the test games i played in the CID though, no game went to 7 rounds. it was always over before that one way or another, so this reasoning may have very little bearing on reality. Fueling the Kriel Stone is SOOO much easier if you go first, that it outweighs almost every imaginable benefit of going second. This is a troll specific problem. other factions do not have to deal with this, but we do, and thus we will be even more prone to go first. The only thing that can make me thing about going second is if i play an EBDT and i have something crazy like a building next to water, where he can hide in a zone with +2 to ARM, DEF and SPD and contest the whole game.... Then i start thinking about going second, but that is very rare. You will win the die roll to go first about half the time, and you will "always" chose to go first and so will your opponent. Hence you will play as the second player half the time no matter what you want  |
|
Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
|
Post by Arcaux on Jun 5, 2017 11:24:29 GMT
The only thing that can make me thing about going second is if i play an EBDT and i have something crazy like a building next to water, where he can hide in a zone with +2 to ARM, DEF and SPD and contest the whole game.... Then i start thinking about going second, but that is very rare. You would get the Arm and Def, but not the speed. Sadly they changed it in MK3 so that water no longer counts as difficult terrain, hence it no longer grants the speed buff.
|
|
|
|
Post by Trollock on Jun 5, 2017 12:00:55 GMT
The only thing that can make me thing about going second is if i play an EBDT and i have something crazy like a building next to water, where he can hide in a zone with +2 to ARM, DEF and SPD and contest the whole game.... Then i start thinking about going second, but that is very rare. You would get the Arm and Def, but not the speed. Sadly they changed it in MK3 so that water no longer counts as difficult terrain, hence it no longer grants the speed buff.
Oh! Thanks for the heads up!  |
|
|
|
Post by Trollock on Jun 5, 2017 12:05:42 GMT
The only thing that can make me thing about going second is if i play an EBDT and i have something crazy like a building next to water, where he can hide in a zone with +2 to ARM, DEF and SPD and contest the whole game.... Then i start thinking about going second, but that is very rare. You would get the Arm and Def, but not the speed. Sadly they changed it in MK3 so that water no longer counts as difficult terrain, hence it no longer grants the speed buff.
Wait a minute... Page 77 in prime clearly states that water is rough terrain. That is in fact the only thing it says about shallow water, so you should get both DEF and SPD from it as usual... |
|
Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
|
Post by Arcaux on Jun 5, 2017 12:24:47 GMT
You would get the Arm and Def, but not the speed. Sadly they changed it in MK3 so that water no longer counts as difficult terrain, hence it no longer grants the speed buff.
Wait a minute... Page 77 in prime clearly states that water is rough terrain. That is in fact the only thing it says about shallow water, so you should get both DEF and SPD from it as usual... Seems like I misread it and have been pointlessly handicapping myself all MK3.
It's seem I should be the one thanking you!
|
|
mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
|
Post by mattmcd on Jun 5, 2017 12:59:06 GMT
Strange. I have also heard water does not offer a speed buff.
I love those Earthborns!!
|
|
