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Post by ForEver_Blight on Jun 2, 2017 14:02:47 GMT
So with the loss of shadow pack and snipe I really feel Lylyth is an even less effective one trick pony than before.
But I want to find a way to play her that's not putting all my "eggs in one basket" trying to overkill with the feat. (though i still think 9 bolt throwers making 18 pow 14 thunderbolt shots is hilarious)
So the only thing I know I want is a full unit of archers + Ua, bolt thrower or 2, and Azrael. I think that in itself is enough ranged capability.
So then I was thinking Slipstream-bot Seraph and Proteus to try and tie up their heavy melee before it gets to the guns. 14" drag threat is pretty great. Or maybe just hellmouths to hide around.
Then maybe warspears as a utility in-between. Their assault attacks could benefit from an upkept, not dead yet, pin cushion model. With prey alone they can put out some respectable damage on average armor.
[reserved for future conflict chamber copy+paste]
So What would you guys do? Baring SR 2017 and probably getting an extra turn of shooting before getting super behind on scenario.
Archangel is still a terrifying option. If the Throne CID results get posted any time soon that would be a serious consideration. I still think croak raiders + our fire dmg guns + pincushion would be devastating. But I'm not paying $65 for frogs I wouldn't even use in my minion armies.
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Post by neutralyze on Jun 2, 2017 14:04:56 GMT
Lylyth2 strength is her feat. Not playing into it is a mistake. She still shoots well and has pincushion. Her issue is she's fury starved and soothing song basically doesn't exist on her card.
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Post by krigsol on Jun 2, 2017 14:57:53 GMT
Archers+UA, Azrael, a Bolt thrower, a Ravagore, and double Deathstalkers are my go-to models with Lylyth2.
Use Azrael to kill pretty much any non-huge model in the game on feat turn. Other turns he's just mean to anything with pincusion on it. 2 or 3 pow 17 shots, all boosted, into a pincusioned target are no joke. Lylyth herself can soften up the target to start. Khador players quickly learn they can't play their caster forward and hope to screen it with a single warjack. Deathstalkers and Ravagore on feat turn will wipe out single-wound units. The Archers get an absurd number of shots.
The biggest thing is screening and jamming. I've tried to use warspears but found that with nothing to help keep them alive, they rarely survive long enough to really make perfect use of their assault. They're too big of a target left alone up front. For two less points you can use Raptors, which are far more mobile and have large bases. Add in a hellmouth to cover the flank, and you'll successfully slow your opponent down enough to get everything into position for the feat. You just want to keep the focus off of Azrael.
I don't think relying on her feat is a weakness at all, as I've ended up using it on the second or third turn for an assassination no matter what happens.
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Post by Cheesebeard on Jun 2, 2017 16:26:01 GMT
With Lylyth2's weaknesses, I think not playing her in-theme puts her at a further disadvantage over our other options - even given that she's the only ranged option of our four choices. I realize that most of her best tools are out of theme, and playing in-theme diminishes the versatility of the format a bit, but it might just be a shitty situation for her until more themes/models show up.
Playing her as a spam list I think is a poor choice regardless of format - we don't have anything strong enough to warrant it on the infantry side, and she has a really hard time managing more than a few beasts.
She seems to want a balanced list, but only helps shooting, so I guess we work with that. I'm really hoping that we get an Ogrun theme that allows the Blightbringer, necessary light beasts, and some key solos, as I think that could open up some better options.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Jun 2, 2017 18:55:36 GMT
but none of the themes really give her the tools, I think, she needs.
Oracles is loved by all but she can't run beast heavy. The infantry options gain nothing of note from her.
Children, again, would make a hilarious thunderbolt fiasco but not having access to anything that can really stand up in melee after the gun shots fall, doesn't seem like a good idea.
Ravens not only doesn't give her any heavy hitting tools she needs but takes away an advantageous situation for her army. Removing AD means all of their lines are getting to my range even later. When I could have started whittling away at AD troops one turn before, I would then have to deal with the entire army ball at once. That seems like a terrible idea.
So right now, without any knowledge of future releases. I, myself, would only run her out of theme.
If you have a good theme list post it and I'll work on wrapping my head around it
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newsun
Junior Strategist
Posts: 140 
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Post by newsun on Jun 2, 2017 19:23:07 GMT
The way I've been playing lyl2 is +1 aka lyl3
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Whiskie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by Whiskie on Jun 2, 2017 19:25:56 GMT
Lylyth2 can run in Oracles just fine. Two free Forsaken go a long way toward managing Fury from beasts like Ravagores and you can use the third and fourth free solos on Shepherds if you're really worried about running too hot. My experience (10-15 games, some of which are at cons) has been that you can easily enough remove all the fury from three Ravagores and what's left over ends up on the Seraph and Bolt Throwers. Losing the Seraph to a frenzy for a turn isn't too big a deal and Bolt Throwers are unlikely to frenzy compared to other beasts due to Threshold 10. While there have been times that I get unlucky and everything frenzies most often one beast frenzies after the Feat turn and the rest begin the turn with an extra Fury which Lylyth can clear off with Soothing Song before the rest of the army activates.
Legion Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Oracles of Annihilation
(Lylyth 2) Lylyth, Shadow of Everblight [+28]
- Naga Nightlurker [8]
- Nephilim Bolt Thrower [11]
- Nephilim Bolt Thrower [11]
- Ravagore [19]
- Ravagore [19]
- Ravagore [19]
- Seraph [14]
- Succubus [0(4)]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]
Blighted Nyss Sorceress & Hellion [0(6)]
The Forsaken [0(4)]
The Forsaken [0(4)]
I decided to go with the Succubus because Lylyth is pretty strapped for Fury and the free upkeep helps a lot since she often wants to keep Mirage up throughout the game. The Sorc & Hellion are mostly there to contest scenario and to help clear out infantry that like to run to engage the shooting beasts. It can also run to engage threatening stuff that you might fail to kill on Feat turn - once I used mine to stop a Bronzeback from reaching a pair of Ravagores. One could easily swap out the Sorc for another Shepherd though which can go quite a way toward minimizing Frenzy post Feat turn.
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Post by neutralyze on Jun 2, 2017 19:31:45 GMT
I run a similar list except it has two teraphs over one ravagore. More board presence and feat shots. Starting with AD models works very well and immediately create an area of threat on the board. They have reach which is also good for blocking lanes and lines for models to try and run to engage the ravagores or jam.
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newsun
Junior Strategist
Posts: 140
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Post by newsun on Jun 2, 2017 19:55:23 GMT
I like those ideas for lyl2, who would you guys pair her with?
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Jun 2, 2017 20:48:39 GMT
So are you using her feat as a massive alpha or a way of still getting your shoots in after you've been engaged?
Ravagores are still capable in melee... Maybe I'm just underestimating it on paper. I do want to try it out though.
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Whiskie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by Whiskie on Jun 2, 2017 21:12:49 GMT
So are you using her feat as a massive alpha or a way of still getting your shoots in after you've been engaged? Ravagores are still capable in melee... Maybe I'm just underestimating it on paper. I do want to try it out though. It's for a big alpha. Also I pair Lylyth2 with Fyanna2. |
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Post by piedpiperwtf on Jun 3, 2017 2:48:00 GMT
Lylyth2 strength is her feat. Not playing into it is a mistake. She still shoots well and has pincushion. Her issue is she's fury starved and soothing song basically doesn't exist on her card. I agree except for the soothing song part...our beasts are on the high threshold end of warbeast and when they don't frenzy on turn after feat turn soothing song is there to keep them doing work as well as assuring transfer targets. |
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Post by maximumhippo on Jun 3, 2017 4:29:07 GMT
soothing song basically doesn't exist on her card. I'm amazed by this statement. I cast soothing song almost every turn except feat turn. maybe I wouldn't need to if I brought shepherds or whatever but I rarely take fury management with her because of Soothing Song. Anyway. This is my current list with Lylyth2. I'm usually playing it into Cephalyx dudespam or hordes. The raptors are awesome especially if I can get a pin cushion out on a good target. For the ADR I'm looking at Annyssa, a Grot assassin, a unit of strider scouts and an angelius. I'm also tossing around an Oracles build, see below the Ravens list. conflictchamber.com/#ca201b_-0laBbvbfbfbfaObdbdaYaYbiLegion Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Ravens of War (Lylyth 2) Lylyth, Shadow of Everblight [+28] - Naga Nightlurker [8] - Nephilim Bolt Thrower [11] - Nephilim Bolt Thrower [11] - Nephilim Bolt Thrower [11] - Seraph [14] Strider Deathstalker [0(4)] Strider Deathstalker [0(4)] Blighted Nyss Raptors (max) [18] Blighted Nyss Raptors (max) [18] Grotesque Raiders (max) [12] conflictchamber.com/#ca201b_-0taBbvbfbfboboaOaNaNbubbbbbebeLegion Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Oracles of Annihilation (Lylyth 2) Lylyth, Shadow of Everblight [+28] - Naga Nightlurker [8] - Nephilim Bolt Thrower [11] - Nephilim Bolt Thrower [11] - Ravagore [19] - Ravagore [19] - Seraph [14] - Teraph [10] - Teraph [10] - Succubus [0(4)] Blighted Nyss Shepherd [0(1)] Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1] Blighted Nyss Sorceress & Hellion [0(6)] Blighted Nyss Sorceress & Hellion [0(6)] |
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Whiskie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by Whiskie on Jun 3, 2017 5:21:47 GMT
I'm confused why you're not taking any Forsaken in the Oracles build. Double Sorc is one thing, but why not take a single Forsaken instead of a Shepherd with that free card?
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Post by maximumhippo on Jun 3, 2017 6:20:31 GMT
I'm confused why you're not taking any Forsaken in the Oracles build. Double Sorc is one thing, but why not take a single Forsaken instead of a Shepherd with that free card? Beast master. I can see both sides of the argument, as it is I see way too many frenzy checks even with Forsaken. I might rather the S&H be Forsaken instead. Frankly I don't like the Oracles theme at all but people tell me it's good so I'm trying to play it. |
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