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Post by schrodingercat on May 8, 2017 13:50:14 GMT
Maybe madrak 3 has game in the theme? He can fortune scattergunners or war wagon, the bushwackers have rerolls via UA, and they and highwaymen can CRA difficult targets. Rebuke can prevent charges and spell-peircer will let it play into cryx/menoth/cygnar. The aura will only really be for him and the beasts, but that's all it's ever for anyway.
Plus, he can feat either early to deliver against gunlines or for the turn their melee comes in.
I think I've done the addition right since WW is 16 points right now.
May try this later and report back.
War Room Army
Trollblood - Kriel co
Theme: No Theme Selected 89 / 75 Army
<! OVER POINT LIMIT !>
Madrak, Great Chieftain - WB: +29 - Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 19) - Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)
War Wagon - PC: 18
Troll Whelps - 5 Whelps: 4 Fell Caller Hero - PC: 5
Pyg Bushwhackers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Pyg Bushwhacker Officer & Mortar - Officer & Mortar Pyg: 5 Scattergunners - Leader & 9 Grunts: 14 - Scattergunner Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4 Trollkin Highwaymen - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15
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Post by schrodingercat on May 8, 2017 20:44:53 GMT
Here's my CID battle report using some thing similar this afternoon.
Trollblood - Kriel co
Theme: No Theme Selected 75 / 75 Army
Madrak, Great Chieftain - WB: +29 - Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 19) - Dire Troll Blitzer - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)
War Wagon - PC: 16
Troll Whelps - 5 Whelps: 4 Fell Caller Hero - PC: 0
Pyg Bushwhackers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Pyg Bushwhacker Officer & Mortar - Officer & Mortar Pyg: 0 Scattergunners - Leader & 9 Grunts: 14 - Scattergunner Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 0 Trollkin Highwaymen - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 Thumper Crew: 5
(Arkadius 1) Dr. Arkadius [+32] - Battle Boar [7] - Battle Boar [7] - Road Hog [16] - War Hog [15] - War Hog [15] - War Hog [15] - Targ [4] Farrow Bone Grinders (max) [8] Farrow Brigands (max) [15] - Farrow Brigand Warlord [4]
Scenario was Recon 2 from the week 3 packet. Both players choose the pathfinder objective. Terrain was generated with the cluster method.
Trolls win the roll. Both players rolled a 5, so the +1 from theme had an impact on the game. Trolls elect to go first.
Trolls 1: Everything runs. From troll left to right is the bushwhackers, war wagon, highwaymen, bomber, madrak, blitzer, fell caller, thumper, scattergunners. Fortune goes on the War wagon. First picture occurs here.
Minions 1: Everything runs and stays out of shooting range. From troll left to right is the brigands, road hog, war hogs, arkadius, war hogs road hog. Arkadius casts Guardian Beast and Hyperagressive spell.
Trolls 2: Bushwhackers shoot some brigands and bushwhack out of the way of the war wagon. War wagon moves up and quakes a war hog and repositions back. Scattergunners move up on troll right and kill a couple bone grinders and put some damage on a war hog. Bomber gets pathfinder from the objective and advances into the forest, but LOS is blocked. Highwaymen move through the objective to fill the center of the board but can't get in range to take shots.Thumper slides further right. Blitzer rolls 1 shot and does some damage to a war hog. Madrak puts up the stone aura and feats.
Minions 2: Brigands move up and shoot a couple of bushwackers. Arkadius casts psychosurgery and feats. All the beasts frenzy and charge warrior models. In the center a war hog charges a highwayman, who toughs and moves around the models front arc due to Madrak's feat. The battle boar charges a bushwhacker who dies. At this point I realize I should be moving my troll models out of melee, because then next turn they will not be engaging the beasts and I have a better chance of toughing during madrak's feat. The other war hogs and road hog frenzy on to scattergunners who move out of the melee range. After Arkadius' feat I use the same strategy during the beasts activations and end up with none of his beasts engaged.
Trolls 3: Bushwhackers destroy all but 4 of the brigands due to CRA and a lucky deviation from the mortar. Thumper crew aims and knocks down a war hog near the central forest...I forget to reposition them. Bomber gets pathfinder from the objective and moves over and drops both bombs on the knocked down war hog. This opens up a land for the war wagon to charge the battle boar...I forget to bulldoze, but manage to impact it and a war hog. I choose not to impact the boar since I want the charge attack on it, but impact the war hog. I do some damage to it from the impact attack and slam it 1 inch. A couple more damage from the slam. Charge attack on the road hog hits and does significant damage, slam it 2 inches and do about 4 more points. It then shoots the quake gun at the Road Hog and knocks him down. The spray misses the battle boar and the objective despite shooting gallery, but that was just poor dice. The highwaymen move through the objective and combine into one of the knocked down war hogs and kill it. Madrak moves fortune to the scattergunners, throws a spear at a battle boar on the right. Blitzer gets 3 shots, and damages the road hog. Scattergunners move through a gap between road hog and war hog an pour sprays into arkadius. One hits due to fortune and Arkadius transfers. Second picture occurs here.
Minions 3: The spirit is out on the road hog and the war hog in the center, so they can't shake knockdown. Brigands move up and kill some more bushwhackers. Targ moves up and ancillary attacks Road hog for a spray, but since it's mind is out, too it misses. Arkadius activates and heals some beasts but has to camp heavily. Battle boar moves into zone on troll left. War hog misses it's attacks on the war wagon. Road hog sprays again and does some damage to the Blitzer and kills a highwayman. Battle boar and remaining war hog kill the rest of the scattergunners. Minions cleared both zones and scored to go to 2-0.
Trolls 4: Bushwhacker slip away through Brigands and shoot the battle boar in the left zone, killing it with CRA. War wagon bulldozes War Hog in front of it during its charge and kills it with it's charge attack. It shoots the quake gun at Arkadius but misses, a decent deviation still does some damage and kills the last bone grinder. Thumper crew aims and knocks down road hog...I forget to reposition. Highwaymen kill Road hog. Madrak puts fortune on Bomber and throws his spear at the War hog on the right doing some damage. Fell caller charges war hog on right and contests zone. Bomber drops a bomb on Arkadius and gets a decent deviation. Arkadius transfers and kills remaining battle boar. Second bomb also gets a lucky deviation and minions player concedes as we both needed to leave for other engagements.
**Green** WW: The war wagon was fun to play, and definitely brought a melee element to the list that was otherwise missing due to theme restrictions. I definitely felt like I was able to push it into melee, and even though it didn't kill heavies, the knockdown and slam from heavy impact allowed the rest of my force to do damage to the heavy. Neither player thought it was too strong, but the Minions player felt like next time they would play to jam it up earlier. There was never a time during the game where I wished it was another beast instead. Recon: Seems to fit in with the other scenarios in that it didn't matter until attrition was well under way. Theme: No abuses in the theme..the +1 to starting roll definitely mattered and was appreciated. The reposition on the thumper makes it effective and worth bringing.
**Yellow** WW: It can knock a lot of things down if the opponent doesn't work to avoid that. It doesn't seem to be a problem to me after a couple of games, and my opponent will not be surprised the next time, so I am not worried about abuse. I love that it seems to be a piece my opponent will have to game plan for as opposed to just basically ignoring it. Theme: The war wagon was really the only melee threat in the troll army. I think this was a particularly good matchup for the theme, since Madrak's feat let me un-engage the minion beasts for another round of shooting. If I use a different caster then the theme is really going to feel the lack of melee threats. During turn 2 the short range of the highwaymen meant they didn't contribute. I remain concerned about the competitive viability of the theme. Recon: The scenario barely factored into the game. By the time the minions player had scored I had an attrition advantage and didn't care. The central flags seem out of reach...the main battle is going on right there, so moving to a flag is very risky unless the game is almost over anyway. Maybe the flags should be offset so there is a friendly flag to encourage the caster to move up.
**Orange** Measurement markers: It is difficult to properly measure the interaction between bulldoze and impact attacks with only one measurement marker. I think two would have worked.
**Red** None.
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Post by Trollock on May 9, 2017 8:18:11 GMT
Glad you liked the theme. I played two games with it yesterday and absolutely man handled Legion and Skorne (bat reps to come). It worked way better than i had anticipated. It seems to me like you were moving models away from melee range with Madraks feat though. You can do that, but you take a free strike, so you would have to tough twice so to speak to disengage on your opponents turn. Maybe you did this though, or maybe i misunderstood the whole thing I built a very similar list to this one but havent tried it yet. I get cold feat since the list tops out at POW 16 at range and POW 15 in melee. Even with Spell piercer i am afraid that it will not be enough. The list i played yesterday (grim 1) had a GK and SoBs to crack ARM, and that war perfectly fine. The sluggers i included really help out against knocked down or stationary heavies. My guess is that against 2-3 heavies, you are fine, and preferably ARM 19 or lower. Against several ARM 20+ heavies, this type of list will struggle a lot. All remains to be sen though.
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Post by schrodingercat on May 9, 2017 10:48:42 GMT
I was doing that during madrak's feat. If you leave melee during madrak's feat you have a 50/50 to survive and you won't be knocked down and the enemy model is no longer engaged. If you don't do that, then you can't shoot that model next turn unless you move out and take a free strike then...but at that point toughing is harder and you'll be knocked down.
I'm not saying it's super good because it's still Madrak's stupid dicey feat, but it worked well in this matchup and was an interesting interaction.
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Post by schrodingercat on May 9, 2017 10:49:41 GMT
...and I agree...if there's more than a couple high arm heavies I'd probably be using doomy3.
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on May 9, 2017 12:36:26 GMT
I really like the look of this list
Madrak3 - Mountain King - Bomber - Pyre Max Scattergunners + UA Fire Eaters Fire Eaters Pummeler Crew Pummeler Crew Fell Caller Hero
Obviously I'd be happier with a mauler in there and another 21 points of infantry, but as it stands I feel pretty good about that.
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Post by schrodingercat on May 9, 2017 13:54:19 GMT
the more I think about it the more I like using madrak 3 and bringing more work models instead of the stone. Even something like this might have enough melee in it. conflictchamber.com/#b71b_-0DgPc66Gezez0qfq6eeBhUTrollbloods Army - 68 / 75 points [Theme] Kriel Company (CID) !!! Your army contains a CID entry. !!! You are using a pre-release theme. (Madrak 3) Madrak, Great Chieftain [+29] - Mountain King [36] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Pyg Bushwhackers (max) [15] - Pyg Bushwhacker Officer & Mortar [0(5)] Thumper Crew [0(5)] Trollkin Highwaymen (max) [15] Trollkin War Wagon (CID) [17] There are 8 points left, since the WW is 16, so maybe a swamp troll? Or braylen plus a sorcerer? I would use the fire eaters to light themselves in this obviously.
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on May 9, 2017 13:58:51 GMT
the more I think about it the more I like using madrak 3 and bringing more work models instead of the stone. Even something like this might have enough melee in it. conflictchamber.com/#b71b_-0DgPc66Gezez0qfq6eeBhUTrollbloods Army - 68 / 75 points [Theme] Kriel Company (CID) !!! Your army contains a CID entry. !!! You are using a pre-release theme. (Madrak 3) Madrak, Great Chieftain [+29] - Mountain King [36] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Northkin Fire Eaters [7] Pyg Bushwhackers (max) [15] - Pyg Bushwhacker Officer & Mortar [0(5)] Thumper Crew [0(5)] Trollkin Highwaymen (max) [15] Trollkin War Wagon (CID) [17] There are 8 points left, since the WW is 16, so maybe a swamp troll? Or braylen plus a sorcerer? I would use the fire eaters to light themselves in this obviously. Is the sorcerer allowed in the theme?
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Post by Trollock on May 9, 2017 14:11:27 GMT
Is the sorcerer allowed in the theme? By the same logic that it is allowed in BoH it should be allowed here, right? That may actually be a good inclusion in non-madrak 3 lists, to handle incorporeal. If you play this theme it is likely to be your anti-dude list, so it should be able to handle ghost fleet.
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