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Post by michael on Jan 8, 2020 1:19:22 GMT
Assault Corps are 13 and it doesn't save them from "not bad not terrible", same with emo Corps, even for 13 points; It's a bunch of slow, relatively fragile beatsticks, Dragos makes them more threatening via Vengeance. If you want to include "naked" Demo Corps I think Min units as a "counterpunch" might be the way to go. Still, shocks are better if you don't take anything, and even with them I'd rather take them with UA, if only because the extra guys makes using shield wall triangles easier. Assault Corps are also only 5 boxes, 3 less P+S, with no Crit Freeze or Shatter. Demo Corps at 7/13 (or maybe 8/13?) look really good to me...
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Post by Havock on Jan 8, 2020 7:12:45 GMT
But they have Carapace, pushing to a respectable ARM20 vs guns, which are the biggest threats to the Demo Corps really aside from getting charged*, and they are SPD5 base, and shatter is cute, but I'd swap it for Brutal Charge quite happily.
*and boosted POW12+ kills demo corps pretty reliably.
Drago is good because he enables them, without it they are just beefy, slowpoke Pikemen really. It's the same problem with many of our jacks: They are not fantastic at point cost X but you can't really drop them down to point cost Y because then it just becomes too easy to stak too many P+S something + ARM + boxes. Not arguing if 13 would be immediately too low :v
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jan 8, 2020 8:11:58 GMT
I always thought the old MK2 system made sense, where you had to choose between extra damage or extra attacks. It made them more versatile. Of course back then the Great Bears were pretty much strictly better than a min Demo unit.
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Post by Havock on Jan 9, 2020 2:34:57 GMT
Yeah, but that's way in the past now :v
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Post by michael on Jan 13, 2020 17:07:02 GMT
For the first time in probably several years, I intentionally did not go to the game shop to play games yesterday. No extenuating circumstances, no work calls, not sick, nothing special, I just didn’t feel like going.
HELP I AM PROBABLY DYING.
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Post by sand20go on Jan 13, 2020 18:01:15 GMT
But they have Carapace, pushing to a respectable ARM20 vs guns, which are the biggest threats to the Demo Corps really aside from getting charged*, and they are SPD5 base, and shatter is cute, but I'd swap it for Brutal Charge quite happily. *and boosted POW12+ kills demo corps pretty reliably. Drago is good because he enables them, without it they are just beefy, slowpoke Pikemen really. It's the same problem with many of our jacks: They are not fantastic at point cost X but you can't really drop them down to point cost Y because then it just becomes too easy to stak too many P+S something + ARM + boxes. Not arguing if 13 would be immediately too low :v +1. Both are relatively underwhelming these days but realistically the Assault Troopers are Def 13 (ashen veil) and ARM 20 on the turn that matters (as they close) and are hitting on the charge just 1 p+S less. IN most games you are delivering more AT than you are DC - and this also notes that you have at your disposal a caster who has revive on his card. One thing that would make DC a better investment is some sort of more reliable and less risky way of getting off stationary so we were not procing for the crit. Hmmm......idea incoming!!!!
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Post by sand20go on Jan 13, 2020 18:20:14 GMT
So here is how to play DC and it is REALLY REALLY good. Like Uber good. Like you should not lose to most lists. Like you got your win button and can generate so much Salt it isn't even funny. Like it is WAY time to go out and spend all your money. conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-1P77f8oQl5l5l4l3l3l2o-p1l7l1l7Khador [Theme] Armored Korps !!! This army contains a pre-release entry. [Vladimir 2] Vladimir Tzepesci, the Dark Champion [+27] - Victor [34] Alexia, The Undying [5] Man-O-War Kovnik [4] Man-O-War Kovnik [4] Man-O-War Strike Tanker [5] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Kommandant Atanas Arconovich & Standard [7] Legion of Lost Souls (min) [11] - Morrowan Battle Priest (2) [4] Man-O-War Demolition Corps (max) [14] - Sergeant Dragos Dragadovich [0(6)] Man-O-War Demolition Corps (max) [14] The big thing here is that we got 8 shield guards in this list that can march, with LOS blocked, behind the DC (shield walling if they want). You can have Vlad 2 MUCH more aggressively forward with is pie plates of no spraying to protect your glob of DCs. You then, with shit in range, just obliterate them. And should your opponent get "cute" and try to not fead you stuff you have Victor and the oppression tankers AND the CRA'ing LoS to provide some shooting. Jesus this is strong EDIT - I am an idiot. SHe gives shield guard to ONLY undead SOLOS. So you can get a few shield guards in there but not "en mass"
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Post by michael on Jan 13, 2020 19:49:18 GMT
If the solution to “How do we make this warrior model worthwhile?” is “Play Vlad2!”, then it hardly counts as a real solution.
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Post by auraco on Jan 14, 2020 13:26:56 GMT
I'm really not a fan of the demo corps, pretty much the only caster with which I actually like them is Sorscha3, where you have reliable ways to freeze stuff and your army all gets there at the same time, with other casters (this is especially bad with Vlad2) the army doesn't get there at the same time and it makes picking up the demo corps very easy (such as when they get affected by vlad's feat and are way up the board, even with the feat they are not exactly that hard to kill, and Dragos character status makes him a weak link in that set up).
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Post by sand20go on Jan 14, 2020 15:07:15 GMT
I'm really not a fan of the demo corps, pretty much the only caster with which I actually like them is Sorscha3, where you have reliable ways to freeze stuff and your army all gets there at the same time, with other casters (this is especially bad with Vlad2) the army doesn't get there at the same time and it makes picking up the demo corps very easy (such as when they get affected by vlad's feat and are way up the board, even with the feat they are not exactly that hard to kill, and Dragos character status makes him a weak link in that set up). Hmmm. 8 boxes 12/19 with band of brothers and retal strike is not opposite of hard to remove
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Post by auraco on Jan 14, 2020 15:41:25 GMT
I mean they go from squishy to ok on that turn, but Dragos still stands out like a sore thumb from the unit on the feat turn, and he's still super squishy. I've played against it and never had too much of an issue killing them, and in the few Vlad2 armored corps I played with them I found that yeah they are impressive on the feat turn, then they are in front of your army and die the following turn because they went up the board super quick with the feat. You could wait for the feat, but then that's just having models stand back and not be super releveant and still super easy to kill. Vlad2 is great, but I find that he's vastly superior in Wolves of winter than in armored corps. I greatly prefer Sorscha3 to run armored corps, she brings a couple of tools to the theme that makes it work better in my opinion.
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Post by sand20go on Jan 14, 2020 17:45:38 GMT
I mean they go from squishy to ok on that turn, but Dragos still stands out like a sore thumb from the unit on the feat turn, and he's still super squishy. I've played against it and never had too much of an issue killing them, and in the few Vlad2 armored corps I played with them I found that yeah they are impressive on the feat turn, then they are in front of your army and die the following turn because they went up the board super quick with the feat. You could wait for the feat, but then that's just having models stand back and not be super releveant and still super easy to kill. Vlad2 is great, but I find that he's vastly superior in Wolves of winter than in armored corps. I greatly prefer Sorscha3 to run armored corps, she brings a couple of tools to the theme that makes it work better in my opinion. I am pretty much convinced that OW2 runs AC the best (and possibly Wolves). In the Current Meta you REALLY need a way to shut down shooting. Without mass shield guards (hi, Menoth; Flames lists) it just gets awful. I have NEVER figured out how to get Vlad's Pie PLates of nope out in a way that really works well. You can force folks to move around a bit but you are still seeing shots come your way. ONe interesting note, however, if I recall correctly, outside of Sloan none of the Flames casters (the new hotness) bring anti-cloud wall tech. One of the nice things is that S3 does _AND_ provides the autopoint of damage.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Jan 14, 2020 22:03:06 GMT
I mean they go from squishy to ok on that turn, but Dragos still stands out like a sore thumb from the unit on the feat turn, and he's still super squishy. I've played against it and never had too much of an issue killing them, and in the few Vlad2 armored corps I played with them I found that yeah they are impressive on the feat turn, then they are in front of your army and die the following turn because they went up the board super quick with the feat. You could wait for the feat, but then that's just having models stand back and not be super releveant and still super easy to kill. Vlad2 is great, but I find that he's vastly superior in Wolves of winter than in armored corps. I greatly prefer Sorscha3 to run armored corps, she brings a couple of tools to the theme that makes it work better in my opinion. I am pretty much convinced that OW2 runs AC the best (and possibly Wolves). In the Current Meta you REALLY need a way to shut down shooting. Without mass shield guards (hi, Menoth; Flames lists) it just gets awful. I have NEVER figured out how to get Vlad's Pie PLates of nope out in a way that really works well. You can force folks to move around a bit but you are still seeing shots come your way. ONe interesting note, however, if I recall correctly, outside of Sloan none of the Flames casters (the new hotness) bring anti-cloud wall tech. One of the nice things is that S3 does _AND_ provides the autopoint of damage. Kara Sloan is not a valid Flame in the Darkness warcaster, but: Thamarite Archons, Vigilants (with Glynn), and Resolutes all have True Sight. Resolutes have multiple wounds so they can also charge through auto-point templates.
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Post by auraco on Jan 15, 2020 3:01:23 GMT
Pretty sure he meant Heart of darkness.
For the Flame stuff, all those things you mentionned do ignore los for the clouds, but they are not exactly going to do great against man o war models other than the demo corps either. Resolutes in general won't do that much against iron fleshed shocktroopers. It's not super boostable shooting, don't get me wrong I think it's great shooting, not just exactly what you need to take care of man o war with shields and jacks. With the feat you don't get a timewalk like against some other factions, but you do get to mitigate a lot of the power of their shooting.
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Post by michael on Jan 15, 2020 22:26:50 GMT
All that being said: I still don’t have a decision on what to prep for Lock & Load.
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