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Post by darkangeldentist on May 15, 2023 15:52:47 GMT
When your local meta is nothing but nostalgic memory the only way to get some games seems to be to attend a tournament. So once more I attended the Welsh Masters to see what the game was like in MK IV and actually play some games.
Spoilers: It’s still pretty fun.
Turns out that this would be the last Welsh Masters as a stand alone tournament, Martyn (the organiser and driving force for many a tournament and event) has plans for something different in the future and warmachine will be part of it but not all of it. I look forward to seeing more of what he has planned. As MK4 has not really taken off that much this year was quieter and smaller than previous years. Looking at the positive this event was more laid back and relaxed than previous events and I was focused on catching up with familiar faces I hadn’t seen in ages than thinking that I had any chance of winning any games. There were 45 people in attendance and I think pretty much everyone was a returning player to the game rather than any completely new faces. PP have a hurdle to clear in getting MK4 across to new players and encourage older ones to reinvest.
The faction breakdown for the event was quite interesting by itself with nearly 20% of players fielding Cygnar, many showing off the nice new Storm legion army but a few (like myself) fielding the trencher First army. There was only 1 Orgoth player though and 3 Khador, three factions had no representation at all. Dusk, Retribution and Convergence. The only surprise in the faction representation to me is that there was only 1 person who’d picked up Orgoth, which considering it’s the other half of the new starting factions is something I am quite surprised about.
Although the event was 100pt 2 lists D&C 0 I only have Kraye for First army and sourcing models has been difficult for me as I’m just not very committed to the system any more. Thus I was 1 listing the event and to be honest I found it quite the beneficial decision for me as I never had to spare a thought about if I’d chosen the right list. In case anyone’s curious here’s what I fielded;
Kraye Squire Centurion Hammersmith 2x Cyclones 2x Hunters Sentinel Maxwell Finn Trencher master gunner 2x Trencher chaingun crews Trencher engineers 2x Rangers Command cards were Arcane Forces Blessing of the gods Old Faithful Power swell Sapper
There were 6 rounds for the tournament and I got to play against Grymkin twice, Infernals, Cygnar, Skorne and Crucible guard. I managed to end the event 3 and 3 and finished 25th out of 45.
One of my losses was on scenario, 2 were on clock. I am still awful about time management and that sucks but I now accept it and only practice would maybe make me any better. At least I no longer stress about it… as much anyway.
Overall I had a good time, all my opponents was friendly, patient and there were no arguments or poor games. First game was against someone who used to be a regular opponent but haven’t seen in more than a year so that was a very nice way to get back into the game.
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Post by Soul Samurai on May 15, 2023 17:50:43 GMT
That's nice to hear, I'm glad it was fun. I've never been to anything more than a local club tournament, so to me 45 people sounds like a lot.
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Post by darkangeldentist on May 15, 2023 20:12:38 GMT
That's nice to hear, I'm glad it was fun. I've never been to anything more than a local club tournament, so to me 45 people sounds like a lot. I’ve been told it was one of the biggest MK4 events (in the UK certainly) so I guess it does count as a lot. A few years at its height the Welsh managed to attract 180 people I think. Regardless it’s not the size of the event that matters but how much fun it is and the Welsh was always a good event. Since it seemed that my choice to use legacy Cygnar was somewhat of a minority (despite this my one game into Cygnar was against another legacy list) it was nice to find Kraye was so much fun to use and felt so competent into nearly every matchup. Repo 5” is I think too much as the impact of seeing jacks come into range to shoot only to retreat back out of threat can be very demoralising to opponents. The cyclone is now genuinely awesome. The command cards impressed me a lot, they proved extremely influential in all games and give most forces some clutch tools to help mitigate bad matchups or just provide that one tool to let you do something cool that would otherwise be impossible. Every jack getting dual attack is a huge deal and the change to let you shoot whilst engaged (even if only at the model you’re engaged with) is so much of a game changer. Cyclones have become properly versatile jacks and on Kraye are an absolute terror into certain matchups. To be very brief my games were as follows: Round 1: Grymkin Old witch. A familiar opponent even if we hadn’t played in more than a year. Win on scenario as I managed to attrition his forces down control the scenario. Scenario was king of the hill. Round 2: Infernals Zaataroth. My first ever game against infernals and they still seem rather cheesy. Lost on scenario but definitely not an un-winnable matchup and it was fun to see the cyclone present a genuinely good counter to zaataroth’s feat. Round 3: Grymkin Old witch. A new opponent with a very different list and I made a terrible error in both underestimating how bonkers units are under boundless charge and desperate pace and just failing to notice the horsey man units. Despite that the game was decided by me clocking out. Scenario was Spread the Net. Round 4: Cygnar Seige 2. A tricky game where I again made an early unforced error but attrition and scenario were actually finishing somewhat in my favour towards the end but another game where I death-clocked myself. Scenario was Invasion. Round 5: Skorne Makeda 2. Going second is still a big disadvantage when facing gunlines I think. I got early board presence and scenario pressure to gain the advantage and my opponent’s dice completely abandoned him trying to clear out a ranger contesting his zone. Scenario was bunkers. Round 6: Crucible guard Baldwin. On paper my opponent had both a lot of good ranged tech and a lot of decent anti-ranged tech so I wasn’t confident but first turn proved an advantage and I was also fortunate that the scenario rewarded my jack heavy list. My opponent wasn’t prepared for what Kraye’s feat could do and the mobility iron horse gives his battlegroup. I started to win heavily on attrition and in turn ultimately got to win on scenario. Scenario was Recon II. Kraye’s feat and iron horse ability are really something when you pull it off right. Cyclones getting to charge in, kill a couple of infantry and then go guns blazing and still with full focus is quite awe inspiring. I also really like and enjoy the changes to power attacks. It makes like jacks in particular much more versatile alongside gaining dual attack. Power attacks on lights is now a genuine option and really quite tempting for otherwise meek little things like the sentinel. (A sentinel slamming a small based model is no different from a heavy doing so and means a quite impressive bump up in power for it too. There is a lot for me to mull on in the aftermath but I am glad to find the game is still fun, better balanced than before and the people who play it are still great too.
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Post by darkangeldentist on May 17, 2023 8:45:30 GMT
After a little time to mull over the event and games I can confidently say that the game is still a lot of fun and definitely worth sticking with… if you can find or convince people to play against. Locally I just don’t think I can drum up interest as most of my local community are long term invested in other systems and I probably count as one of those too seeing that I’ve mostly been playing Infinity, Epic40K (3rd edition Epic), A song of Ice & Fire and am at risk of being drawn back into either 40k or the Old world. Too many game systems and all the others have much stronger player bases near me.
Whilst the announcement for MK4 happened nearly a year ago it still almost feels like we’re still waiting for the official release of this edition proper. The app is functional and I don’t mind using it after having been a big fan of physical cards but with there being so much missing legacy content and the odd issue regarding steamroller (objectives aren’t in the steamroller pack despite being referenced for example) plus perhaps the biggest hurdle being how much of a clean slate approach PP have presented here. Legacy content is limited and loads of older models have no rules or place in the game. The newer stuff looks cool but requires you to buy a whole new army and currently I can’t afford that. Not being able to integrate my current collection stings a bit.
On to more positive stuff though.
Command cards are a really great addition, it gives you tools to mitigate problems or exploit certain tactics in game without having to build a list around them that usually depended on taking specific models. It means that the pressure when list building to take particular choices because of the answers they gave you is reduced and as a consequence makes list design feel more open. As a Cygnar player I’ve found Old faithful, Arcane forces and Blessings of the gods to be amongst my favourites but others favour infiltration, defences and hit&run a lot too. They all provide clutch tools to use in game and help you react without having to completely on top of things that are often outside your control.
No jack points. Wasn’t initially sold of this change to list construction but shifting it to a scaling requirement for jacks/beasts/cohort models has been a good one, there are some cheap options for those that don’t wish to invest heavily, most are more balanced and costed to feel useful and units being smaller and solos more vulnerable has definitely made warjacks feel more valuable options. The removal jack points feeds into this as removes one of the smaller pressure points that used to exist in Mk3 because certain casters had a tougher time because their list was going to smaller than the opponents because of the difference in jack points. For the same reason I don’t miss theme forces and their ‘free’ options either. It affected list design as people inevitably tried to maximise the advantage it brought. Now you determine the game size and know that is how many points each list will have.
I’ve just noticed how much I’ve written here… rather than make even more of a wall of text I’m going to take a break and will post other take-aways in separate posts later.
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Post by darkangeldentist on May 18, 2023 7:46:44 GMT
More take-aways:
Jacks are much better now, all of them having dual attack and melee engagement not preventing the use of ranged weapons is a huge deal and whilst shooting in combat may be unreliable (stuff gets the +4 DEF for being engaged whether with you or any other model) it still beats not having the option and if you manage to punch what’s engaging you then being free to shoot afterwards makes mixed arms jacks feel awesome. No facing also helps here too. I like the changes to power attacks too, the flat damage values based on the difference between base sizes really steam-lines things and gives a significant boost to smaller weedier jacks that otherwise have very limited damage output. Even the lowly sentinel can decide to slam a small based foe to inflict a POW 14 hit on them with 3-4 dice damage if they can slam into another model. Smaller unit sizes also make jacks slightly less vulnerable to simply getting deleted. Make no mistake unit damage output can still totally one-round a jack but it’s harder without the right tech to deliver them and easier to mitigate by killing a few members of a unit off. Special mention goes to my long time favourite jack the Cyclone, for years an expensive, pillow-fisted model that looked cool but could never deliver on the table. Well in Mk4 the thing can be a damned terror and that’s in spite of not hitting any harder! Volume fire being added to the metal storm guns makes it just so brutal at range into large bases that it overshadows the defender by quite a margin in terms of damage output and I love them on Kraye.
Units feel very different now, much more tactical and you can make extremely potent use of the terrain to shield the bulk of your unit from enemy fire. If one model has line of sight and range to make a charge, everyone gets to charge in. That can be very brutal and there are still a bunch of ways to stack a couple of buffs onto a unit so that even a trencher hits like a truck. The lower model count still feels a bit odd on paper but it really helps clean up the table in practice. Units having to bunch up more also helps too as it’s now far harder to completely physically block somebody out of zones or pressure quite such large areas of the table. It’s also raised the value of smaller niche units for me. Weapon crews in particular seem much more viable, I took a pair of trencher chainguns, one opponent fielded the trencher cannon and express team, crucible guard fielded the rocket team and skorne a pair of venator flayer crews. The new movement rules really help make up for that abysmal movement stat and their often unique special rules offer some nice little benefits. I was really impressed with my little chainguns who racked up a fair kill count over the course of the weekend.
My one criticism of units or rather cautionary observation is that reposition can be nuts! Rangers are only a 3 man unit now and the new rules for running units actually makes them feel quite slow compared to previous editions but repo 3 gets them into all kinds of awkward little places for the opponent and they can spread out a lot more than you might think to occupy more board space or provide mark target. They proved extremely useful and tricksy over the weekend and no free strikes means that getting engaged in melee is not longer the end for them.
Actually, special mention to that change to the rules. No free strikes but forfeit your combat action that turn if you leave melee range is such an impactful change and it makes any model with a melee range an obstacle that must be removed it it’s engaging you models who want to charge past (no matter how weedy that pokey stick it) unless they are fortunate enough to have the unstoppable rule (which currently is quite rare) and that makes Kraye an insanely happy warcaster. Sending jacks into melee who then retreat out of the way to let the next one charge in or follow up to engage free foes that they can’t charge is so powerful and completely changes the dynamic for the game.
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Post by Soul Samurai on May 18, 2023 8:11:04 GMT
Glad you're liking the new edition. I'm not sold on some of the rules changes myself, but I will admit that when I finally got to actually play the changes felt more natural than I had expected.
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Post by darkangeldentist on May 18, 2023 8:47:57 GMT
Glad you're liking the new edition. I'm not sold on some of the rules changes myself, but I will admit that when I finally got to actually play the changes felt more natural than I had expected. Which rule changes are you unsure about? I also felt the same way, particularly regarding units and run movement/charges but with a few games under my belt (still haven’t played much, it’s been one test game nearly a year ago and the 6 games as at the Welsh) it’s been enough to get a feel for things much more than just reading them and trying to imagine how it works.
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Post by Soul Samurai on May 18, 2023 9:45:16 GMT
To be clear I've only gotten one game of Mk4, and that wasn't even a proper game. I've assembled a bunch of MOW so I can run an actual legal army, but haven't had time to paint them - been a busy year so far.
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Post by darkangeldentist on May 29, 2023 11:12:37 GMT
The most recent Wednesday update added a lot more options for me to field Cygnar, which makes me quite happy and enthused to experiment a bit more with lists now that I can field more than one caster. Quite amazed what they did to Stryker 3 and frankly amazed at how auto-include Rowdy is with him. Rowdy is in fact probably an auto-include with any of the casters. Somewhat expectant that SPD 6 is a mistake on him though.
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Post by Soul Samurai on May 29, 2023 13:49:10 GMT
I haven't looked much at the new Cygnar stuff; it's all Storm Knights right? I was always more into the the Shield Knights and Precursors. But I'm glad more models are playable.
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Post by darkangeldentist on May 29, 2023 15:48:00 GMT
I haven't looked much at the new Cygnar stuff; it's all Storm Knights right? I was always more into the the Shield Knights and Precursors. But I'm glad more models are playable. Yeah, all of the units are storm knights (plus gobbers) and they’ve made a bunch of peculiar changes to some of the units compared to Mk3 but not so much that I’m put off giving any of the units a try. The stormsmiths solos might actually work now and the stormsmith stuff in general looks quite cool. What’s caught my eye are the casters and warjacks as Cygnar had a lot of storm-related character jacks that just didn’t seem to work very well. Most are now looking much more playable, although quite expensive and just more interesting given the way Mk4 plays.
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