|
|
Post by moarbarmu on Mar 22, 2021 1:22:28 GMT
Assuming that the Freebooter can charge for free, Hunter's Mark for example, I believe that it is possible to make the Freebooter quite powerful in Irregulars with Boss MacHorne. The Freebooter could get 1 Focus from Bamfist, charge for free, get a Flank bonus, charge bonus, Dismantle bonus, and if I knocked down the warjack, a Trash bonus, plus +2 from Crush, giving the Freebooter a 6d6-2 attack and when you spend the Focus point, you can either have a second 6d6-2 attack or two 5d6-2 attacks. That is potentially 16d6-6 damage against ARM 18 which means that you do not need to roll that well to kill it, especially if you do some damage from the ranged attack that knocked down the jack. Is this better than a Mangler with Boss MacHorne against ARM 18 warjacks?
|
|
|
|
Post by droopingpuppy on Mar 22, 2021 11:08:05 GMT
First, there is really no reason at all to think about against ARM 18 warjacks. Even the most mediocre anti-armor options are able to dismantle it by one turn quite easily. Actually if your list can't do it, then your list is already something gone horribly wrong. I am dead serious. An ARM 18 warjack is nothing but a damage soaker, or you can't against even the most mild and fun gamer. The only situation you are think about ARM 18 warjack is to face Berserker chassis, but I think that you need the better answer than a single marshaled warjack with MacHorne2 if you face more than three Berserkers.
Against ARM 20 is the better example actually, for it is the ARM value of Juggernaut chassis and Dire Troll(with Protective Aura, but you can't imagine a Trollblood force without it), and various other warjack/beast/or something equivalent are ARM 20 or less. If you can crack ARM 20, it also means you could better against ARM 19 or less as well.
Also consider that jacks with immune to knockdown(either default or buff) is not that uncommon. Mariner chassis is also immune to it as well. There is a reason why MacHorne1 in MKII was not so good.
|
|
sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
|
Post by sorokin on Mar 22, 2021 11:43:49 GMT
I'd say it going to be 100% better than a mangler, so long as Shae is your caster, because he hands out free charges with a spell for privateer jacks, so you are saving the points on lanyssa. paying 4 points for bamfist just for empower is kinda blegh but if you have a model such as harlowe in your army he can also give him force barrier on turns where you dont need empower so it's alright.
|
|
|
|
Post by michael on Mar 22, 2021 13:35:55 GMT
.... There is a reason why MacHorne1 in MKII was not so good. And that reason is because the unit was stupidly overpriced, too fragile, and had really stupid and counterintuitive rules on the nets* that made playing them cumbersome and frustrating. * As far as I remember, and without going back to check, they were melee weapons that couldn’t be used on a charge, and only their guns had Trash. Something like that. But you know what? MK II has been gone for almost 5 years! Get over it!  |
|
|
|
Post by droopingpuppy on Mar 22, 2021 14:30:57 GMT
.... There is a reason why MacHorne1 in MKII was not so good. And that reason is because the unit was stupidly overpriced, too fragile, and had really stupid and counterintuitive rules on the nets* that made playing them cumbersome and frustrating. * As far as I remember, and without going back to check, they were melee weapons that couldn’t be used on a charge, and only their guns had Trash. Something like that. But you know what? MK II has been gone for almost 5 years! Get over it! You know, MKII was existed, and so do various warjacks immume to knockdown that makes Trash trash. And the former wasn't changed in the new edition five years ago, while MacHorne1 was at least try to adapt. It is not only like live in MKII. It is the former experience that still works even now. |
|
|
|
Post by michael on Apr 4, 2021 20:53:23 GMT
... You know, MKII was existed, and so do various warjacks immume to knockdown that makes Trash trash. And the former wasn't changed in the new edition five years ago, while MacHorne1 was at least try to adapt. It is not only like live in MKII. It is the former experience that still works even now. Funny thing though: the Devil Dogs lost Trash and picked up Dismantle in this edition, and their nets, which used to only knockdown jacks and beasts, knock down everything now. Why, it’s almost like some experiences from the last edition are no longer applicable! |
|
|
|
Post by droopingpuppy on Apr 5, 2021 10:20:08 GMT
... You know, MKII was existed, and so do various warjacks immume to knockdown that makes Trash trash. And the former wasn't changed in the new edition five years ago, while MacHorne1 was at least try to adapt. It is not only like live in MKII. It is the former experience that still works even now. Funny thing though: the Devil Dogs lost Trash and picked up Dismantle in this edition, and their nets, which used to only knockdown jacks and beasts, knock down everything now. Why, it’s almost like some experiences from the last edition are no longer applicable! And you didn't aware of the fact that they are the testament that Trash is sucks. Think about why they are didn't come with Trash and choose Dismantle instead.
Also, is Trash quite usable right now? Yes it depends, but your opponent chooses how useful it is, not you. And I don't think that it is rare enough to easily use knocked down effects.
I say MKII because its aftereffect still stands. You are just plain wrong, because the experiences are actually still applicable, especially for this case. Even now. It's not a long gone history, but the reality of nowdays, at least for the number of models with immune to knockdown.
Models immune to knockdown are quite common, you know. Several factions are already have this on MKII, and in the new edition the numbers are only got more and is not reduced. Yes you will not always face something immune to knockdown, sure, but you will see it quite often, enough to not rely on Trash. Immune to knockdown are already rather common and you expect to face them, and we have seen the consequence even before the new edition was born. The new edition changes so much things, but it only consolidate the fact that an ability that only affects against knocked down model is not a good thing. We have seen in MKII, and even now it only gets worse. It is not only living in the old times. I just see the reality. The real world we live now.
If Freebooter didn't keep Trash then it isn't applicable, as you said. But it do have it even now. And we have seen how often we face the heavy with immune to knocked down and the arise of colossal. In the era of the new edition, they are only got more and is not reduced. And, is 'Trash is sucks because there are many models with immune to knocked down' a lone gone history? Despite it is actually a reality around us even now? Please, talk with the experience of present, and we can talk.
Still, it is an usable tool for the sideboard. But they are not the good choice for your default list. And you will not make a list from scratch after saw the full entry of your opponent's, do you? But at least for sideboard, you may put them legally after check your opponent's one.
-----------------------------------------------
Anyway, I doubt that OP even care for the threads the OP posted, but there are problems I said already; - ARM 18 is not a meaningful target to consider, since it is very, very easy to kill unless you face a ton of ARM 18 heavies, not only one to three - and only Khador can bring such list efficiently. Unless you are specially want a solution for Berserker Spam and you have no idea to deal with those, it is not meaningful at all in your real games. Unless most of your opponents in your local meta plays Khador and also brings 4+ Berserkers and you expect tons of Berserkers all the times, but it's very, very corner case.
- Immunity to knockdown is rather common, although not so common enough to always encounter one, so it is unlikely that you can exploit it all the times. It depends on your local meta, though, but if your local meta have many heavies with immunity to knockdown, or some colossals(that is immune to knocked down), you better drop the idea and switch to the other jack.
- Jack Marshal can only control one warjack. So you don't need to stick with Freebooter with bear the risk to face heavy with immune to knockdown(or colossal). A Mangler, as you said, is already a solid choice. Also Nomad/Rover/Toro are not half bad either.
|
|
