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Post by HubertJFarnsworth on Apr 26, 2017 19:47:34 GMT
Gained 1 point of cost, gets +2 to damage rolls when it aims, and picked up Carapace. Me likey.
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dagowit
Junior Strategist
Posts: 171
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Post by dagowit on Apr 26, 2017 20:35:49 GMT
Seconded.
I think the AFG was already decent in the right list. Carapace helps make it very solid since I have lost it a couple of times to concentrated fire (when opponents bothered to focus on it). Extra damage is always welcome - and it means POW 9 blast damage, which is significant (judging by how much my Gun Boars with High Explosive kill with POW 10).
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Post by Demeritus on Apr 26, 2017 21:41:59 GMT
The one thing I would like to see off hand is for range booster to become range command, and if that means lowering command to 4 or 5, that's fine.
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Post by lyrael on Apr 27, 2017 0:16:01 GMT
I looked over the changes to the AFG, and I'm kind of ambivalent on them. Is it nice that it picked up carapace? Sure. But I don't think any caster that didn't want it before (which was most of them) will want it now, which I find kind of disappointing and ultimately (at least for me) defeats the purpose of having them in CID at all.
Since its main role seems to be 'ranged artillery piece that supports your army' and Retribution in all my experience with them is a faction that does more to provide answers than ask questions, I would have much rather the changes be more aggressive and towards that idea (even if it ends up costing more) and cut things that aren't in service of that goal.
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Post by Demeritus on Apr 27, 2017 0:41:05 GMT
I looked over the changes to the AFG, and I'm kind of ambivalent on them. Is it nice that it picked up carapace? Sure. But I don't think any caster that didn't want it before (which was most of them) will want it now, which I find kind of disappointing and ultimately (at least for me) defeats the purpose of having them in CID at all. Since its main role seems to be 'ranged artillery piece that supports your army' and Retribution in all my experience with them is a faction that does more to provide answers than ask questions, I would have much rather the changes be more aggressive and towards that idea (even if it ends up costing more) and cut things that aren't in service of that goal. As I look it over, it still seems like its damage output is a bit lower than I would like it to be. Would rather it just got brutal damage if it aims than the +2 damage thing and also just straight up RoF 2. |
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Post by lyrael on Apr 27, 2017 1:20:54 GMT
Personally, given Retribution lower model count and wide open space, I thought they could have moved in another direction entirely. Make it a support piece for the ranged parts of your army?
Here's how I would do that (keep in mind, these are just my thoughts on it. I think that doing something like this would make it an interesting piece that a variety of casters would want, but hopefully balanced enough to where there are casters or armies that wouldn't want it. Its also CID, so I figure that if there's any time to say 'I think moving in this direction would make a for a better model', now is probably the time):
Keep it at the same stats it is now.
It keeps carapace, construct, and gunfighter, but trash the other stuff as is.
Its 2 guns are now:
Chronophage Bolt
RNG 14 ROF 2 POW 10 (Damage Type: Magical)
- Any model hit by this attack gets the Chronophage Bolt debuff.
[Chronophage Blast]: Ranged attacks targeting this model get +2 RNG, +2 POW, and Damage Type: Magical
Arcantrik Cannon
RNG 12 ROF 1 POW __
- When making an attack with this weapon, choose one of the following ammo types:
-- [Momentum] : AoE 3 POW 14. All models in the AoE are knocked down.
-- [Vortex] : Push all models within 3" of the model hit directly towards it in the order you choose. Then center a 3" AoE on the model hit and everyone inside takes a POW 14 damage roll.
-- [Hoarfrost] : AoE 3 POW 14. All models in the AoE are stationary (unless they have cold immunity).
-- [Rift] : AoE 4 POW 14. AoE is rough terrain that stays in play for 1 round.
When this model aims, it gains 'Vision of Scyrah'
[Vision of Scyrah]: Place a 4" AoE completely within 14" of this model. When targeting models in the AoE, friendly faction models gain 'Mage Sight'.
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Anyways, that's how I'd do it, with the basic thematic idea that it gets better versions of the 3 Vyre jack guns (but obviously no melee attacks) and a few other things that give it interesting options (Nyssor did used to have a city in Ios, and I think it having Rift makes sense. The designers seem to agree on the latter, because it obviously has it right now). I think that moves the piece into interesting territory that gives its a fair number of options, but hopefully no option that is too ridiculous.
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Post by ComboSmiteNick on Apr 27, 2017 12:43:45 GMT
I'm satisfied. Carapace is awesome. With both anti-ranged and anti-melee tech its going to be really hard to remove. +2 damage is great although I would have really loved a boosting mechanic.
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Post by tontonkal on Apr 27, 2017 21:42:47 GMT
What I have seen is that the afg gets jammed. Rng 16 should avoid this, but as you want to keep it close to other jacks to benefit the +2 rng on guns, then things get ugly.
I need to try it more, but so far a miss for me.
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Post by elladan52 on Apr 28, 2017 12:37:21 GMT
What I have seen is that the afg gets jammed. Rng 16 should avoid this, but as you want to keep it close to other jacks to benefit the +2 rng on guns, then things get ugly. I need to try it more, but so far a miss for me. How far do you play it up? Typically I run it first turn and then aim the rest of the game. Even being 18" off the back edge is pretty far back on the table, things shouldn't get to it often. |
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Post by tontonkal on Apr 28, 2017 14:50:45 GMT
Nothing too fancy I would say : start at 7" first turn + 8" =» by turn 3 it was jammed by Morv2' ravagers :-(
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Post by mikethefish on Apr 28, 2017 17:54:44 GMT
I looked over the changes to the AFG, and I'm kind of ambivalent on them. Is it nice that it picked up carapace? Sure. But I don't think any caster that didn't want it before (which was most of them) will want it now, which I find kind of disappointing and ultimately (at least for me) defeats the purpose of having them in CID at all. If you truly think this, then playtest it, and... TELL THEM SO. you get that this isn't the final version, right? Grymkin went through countless tweaks during the course of it's CID. I am honestly asking this with no snark whatsoever: do you know how this process works? You try it out in actual games, and then let the devs know, so they can institute gradual changes and collect data. This is exactly the sort of thing that the process is meant to do You have nobody to blame but yourself if this thing sails through testing with no changes at all. |
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Post by lyrael on Apr 28, 2017 19:32:27 GMT
I was reading some post from Soles (I think?) that someone linked to me where he was talking about how they were strictly looking at the changes they suggested to the existing model. That, at least as this time, they weren't looking for 'what it should be' but more 'what you think about what it is'. To which I would state my response earlier.
From the impressions I've been able to gather online, I also seem to be the only person with this opinion, which has led me to think that my opinion probably isn't worth sharing in any official way (other than a fan forum like this one, where my opinion here likely has as much weight and impact as if I simply shouted it in my backyard).
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Post by Demeritus on Apr 29, 2017 16:14:15 GMT
Does anyone else feel that the range booster should be increased to be range command?
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Post by elladan52 on Apr 29, 2017 17:23:47 GMT
Does anyone else feel that the range booster should be increased to be range command? That's insane, but I love it. |
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Post by Tom_Bombadil_ on Apr 30, 2017 17:25:03 GMT
Personally I have always loved the AFG and felt that it had a decent place in lists. These buffs just make it generally harder to remove without committing to it allowing it to just sit back and aim and shoot all game its still the same piece which I am happy about just better.
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