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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Sept 1, 2020 21:36:21 GMT
Hi all,
Played three tough games against Orion today, just wondering if anyone has any pointers or lists that have worked well?
Played Twins in Ravens and Kallus2 in Primal Terrors into him. Won with Twins and once with Kallus2, but was super close both times.
Cheers,
Dave
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Post by voidbender on Sept 3, 2020 1:23:25 GMT
I... Don't believe I've ever faced Orion. Odd.
It looks like he had a couple ways to fix accuracy, so I could understand that a number of common legion lists could run into difficult there. Though it doesn't sound like you had too much trouble.
What were the lists?
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Sept 3, 2020 17:16:20 GMT
Definitely struggled! First game got a last gasp assassination via Saeryn in melee after Rhyas and most of my army had died. Second game lost bottom of turn 2 with Kallus2 after extending too far to kill Nemo4 with Golab (was successful and with proper planning could have Overrun Kallus to safety I think). Third game was a scenario win with Kallus2 after my opponent made a few mistakes.
Orion list:
Orion
-Corollory
-Prime Conflux
-4 x Flying Lights with 2 RoF 2 guns each
Nemo4
-Centurion
JAIMS
9 x Puncture Drones
Orion's feat turn means all the army's attacks get an extra dice to hit against all your infantry, plus they get an extra dice for damage against your caster or any beasts that have fury. Lights threat 16 with 4 RAT7+ POW10+ guns each, then the conflux and Nemo both threat 20 with their guns. Orion can remove stealth, clouds and forests, plus ignores defensive spell buffs through Spellpiercer too. A centurion makes a zone near unclaimable without significant resources (and you are at much reduced threat ranges against it) and all the puncture bots are shield guards too. Basically you have to kill multiple lights before they get to shoot you, and even then you're likely to loose at least a heavy on any given turn if you want to stay in scenario. Hellmouths die to Nemo guns without much issue, so struggle to counter the centurion who really reduces your chance of a scenario win. So a really tough list to deal with!
I think my Kallus2 list had the best game into it, but it definitely isn't easy. Have wondered about Belthane1 with archers, or even an Abby2 list with archangel and ravagores to hope you cripple a few lights before they can shoot you off the board. For reference, my Kallus2 list was:
Kalus2
-Ammok
-Carnivean
-Golab
-Mekanoshredder
-Teraph
Forsaken
Hermit (now dropped to max the warmongers)
Spell Martyr
Spell Martyr
Chosen (Max)
Rotwings (Max)
Warmongers (Min)
-Golab
Hellmouth
Hellmouth
Cheers,
Dave
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 8, 2020 16:36:49 GMT
Heavies can trample to the Centurion if you are out of better options.
Hellmouths in this match up would likely fall to keeping scenario alive rather than pulling models.
Kallus2 would theoretically work if you could get his feat to swing in your favor. But he has nothing defensive to deliver the army and Orion handing out repo 3 makes chasing his gun-line stupidly annoying.
Beth1 deceleration once CID changes publish could help and thrones would not get hit by boosted dmg
Abby1 feat can heal up chip damage and try to weather Orion's feat
Kallus 1 dude spam would make his shots less efficient and you put pressure on where they dedicate guns to
Thagrosh2 hyper aggressive is still a double edged sword to get up the field but forsaken and shepherds can clear fury off of them to avoid the feat dmg
Vayl2... You can always try to spell Orion to death. Couple boundless charge with the mekanoshredder for +4 charge threat for up to 16" threat on an Angelius or AA.
ArchAngel flying high, high threat range, new CID ROF and Pow change, all can help. But you would always want a pet forsaken or two around it to clear fury.
I doubt we could out-shoot him even with the stars align. The key big models in their army threat super far and are pretty safe while doing so.
Maybe take WrongEye and Snapjaw and just see if you can force them to react? might not be competitive but might be fun.
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Sept 9, 2020 18:26:55 GMT
Thanks for the reply, a lot of good info to take in. Very true on the trample and attack, though I find with centurions they're tough enough you often want all your attacks. Though if it's wounded Golab should wreck it pretty hard. If found the hellmouths mostly kept his stuff at bay a little, giving my list more space to come up the board. If Orion loses a light or two his ranged game drops significantly, so he can't really risk loosing them until he's at least feated. Kallus2: Having some ranged stuff helped me a lot I think, and I prefer my new version of the list with an archangel (who I think is great in this match up). Casting Overrun on the shooter means Orion can't really to shield guard stuff to drones if you set up a threat properly. And if he doesn't shield guard you set stuff on fire, which if it lasts a turn sets up the feat nicely. Beth1: Sadly Orion has Spellpiercer, so Decel does nothing more than make him cast it. Abby1: Hadn't thought of the damage reduction with the feat, good shout! An archangel plus other stuff would probably be a good shout. Will need to write a list or two with her! Kallus1: Maybe solid, but I left Khador for Legion to play interesting stuff, not shove models at the opponent and hope  Thags2: Hyper aggressive could work... Orion has to really focus on each beast, so you can probably plan to have beasts in the right places to follow up. Vayl2: Spell death sounds decent, and I really like Vayl2! Will look at lists there too I think. I agree the archangel now seems really handy. A forsaken is a good shout for keeping it clear. I think it can actually keep reasonably safe from major reprisal due to deceptively mobile. WE&SJ are definitely worth a look! Hadn't even considered them somehow... I've actually put together a Thags1 list I'm keen to try. Spellpiercer doesn't ignore Fog of War, so beasts can get to solid defense and swordsmen become DEF18 against ranged. Children of the Dragon Thagrosh1 -Azrael -Mekanoshredder -Serapth -Typhon -Zuriel 2 x Shepherd Nyss Warlord Craelix/Yssylla 2 x Spell Martyr Blackfrost Shard Max Nyss Swordsmen -Champion & Abbot Can't remember it exactly, but something along those lines. Should be trying it this weekend, though not against Orion. Cheers, Dave |
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