|
Post by thebuoyancyofwater on May 28, 2020 11:12:05 GMT
Hi all,
Had a game yesterday that went very badly. Abby2 vs Arkadius on Bunkers. I won the roll off and went first, which initially seemed great, but meant on my turn two I basically had to sacrifice my army or scenario. So a lose-lose situation. While playing a different list is fine (I think either of my other lists would have worked better) it's still useful to have a look at what could be done differently in this type of match up. So I thought I'd put forward a couple ideas and see what others thought and what their ideas were.
Going second initially seems like a terrible idea against a long melee threat army, but I think in this instance maybe isn't. Can choose more favorable terrain for starters. Turn 1 will probably not involve much moving forwards, but the key thing is to keep spell martyrs where the opponent can't get to them and they can run to arc onto flags, plus have ranged beasts who can shoot the flags and other solos (hellions are ideal) that can run to them. Then if the opponent commits fully you can Hex Bolt a solo and go in with the beasts, if he partially commits you can shoot down the solos while claiming the flags yourself and keeping at least some beasts safe and if he doesn't commit you run to the flags and keep beasts safe.
But if the opponent wins the roll and makes you go first what do you do? I pressed forward hard to limit space, but not sure if there's another option?
Anyway, just looking to start a general discussion on the match up. Can also apply to any of our other beast heavy lists playing into a long threat range army really, the example is just the match up that happened.
Cheers, Dave
|
|
|
Post by zwergenkrieger on May 28, 2020 13:37:30 GMT
When playing Arkadius into Legion I didn´t like Fyanna2 on the other side of the board. IMO she is the answer to any kind of long–threatranges opponents which don´t offer a MAT fixer.
Chosen also threat really long on their own therefore an army built around them might work.
|
|
|
Post by thebuoyancyofwater on May 28, 2020 15:37:22 GMT
When playing Arkadius into Legion I didn´t like Fyanna2 on the other side of the board. IMO she is the answer to any kind of long–threatranges opponents which don´t offer a MAT fixer. Chosen also threat really long on their own therefore an army built around them might work. I have a Kallus2 list in Primal Terrors with chosen which is one of my preferred options into long threats. Will give it a try into Arkadius! Cheers, Dave
|
|
|
Post by zwergenkrieger on May 28, 2020 16:45:40 GMT
When playing Arkadius into Legion I didn´t like Fyanna2 on the other side of the board. IMO she is the answer to any kind of long–threatranges opponents which don´t offer a MAT fixer. Chosen also threat really long on their own therefore an army built around them might work. I have a Kallus2 list in Primal Terrors with chosen which is one of my preferred options into long threats. Will give it a try into Arkadius! Cheers, Dave In the Minions Board there is a thread written by Azahul. Maybe you´ll find some batreps about that exact matchup there.
I played once against Kallus1 Primal Terror (Blightbringer, 2x Chosen, 2x Rotwings) and beat it with Rask, though I don´t know how to beat it with Arkadius. Arkadius offers high quality attacks with long threat ranges, but you can just swarm the board with models making it almost impossible to have a strong alpha with Arkadius.
If you get turn1, what will the Arkadius player do? Charge your screening rotwings and be eaten by your heavy stuff? Stay out of your large threat ranges and loose to scenario?
|
|
|
Post by Azahul on May 29, 2020 0:19:27 GMT
I am summoned! lormahordes.freeforums.net/post/142646/threadNo chosen in that list, but it's at least a recent (i.e. this year) game between Arkadius and Kallus2. It's worth noting that against Legion I'm usually inclined to grab Sturm and Drang over Arkadius. I haven't played the Arkadius vs Kallus1 match-up, though I will not that generally speaking Arkadius is okish into screening infantry. Crippling Grasp, Raw Adrenaline sprays, and drifting AOEs from the Gun Boars can punch some big holes. He doesn't have an amazing solution for any Incubi that fall out, mind you, and Hellmouths are awkward for him to deal with without dedicating a buffed heavy to the problem, which is a big part of why my natural inclination is Sturm.
|
|
|
Post by thebuoyancyofwater on May 29, 2020 7:23:00 GMT
Thanks for the comments all! I do read that battle report thread, it's great and thanks for writing it! I'll go read that battle report now.
So I think on general terms for Legion our beast heavy lists aren't the ideal drop into long threat range since we need some infantry to run interference.
Will be testing a couple things today!
Cheers, Dave
|
|
|
Post by dirtyharrypotter on May 29, 2020 9:17:03 GMT
I had luck against arkadius with an eThags nephilim list, before there was a neph theme a couple of years ago (terrible time to be playing a list like that).
Dice ran cold on his alpha strike so there's definitely that, but what I took away is what others said here, target saturation is a bit of a problem.
And they don't take the counterpunch that well. Under eThags even soldiers hit decent and scalping out systems, leaving grievously wounded heavies left and right was a problem. My bonegrinders were awesome in that game.
|
|
eauc
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
|
Post by eauc on May 30, 2020 9:50:57 GMT
In my memories Arkadius is a lot like Legion actually, a long threat range but not necessarily a great punch (on the scale of the whole game). So I just played into his ranges and tried not to give him everything nicely packed. Minions beasts are not that hard to kill either. All see could have change with late entries like archons, idk. Also, more globally, I feel hellmouths are our answer to this problem. Just hold scenario during first turns with a pair, a lot of melee list must dedicate a heavy to killing the thing, which gives you an ok start on piece trading and alleviates the threat on their main charge.
It's kinda the sad thing of Legion presently, we only have hellmouths to viably hold the board.
|
|
|
Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Jun 3, 2020 10:50:46 GMT
Will be testing Kallus2 into Arkadius in the next week or so. I agree the hellmouths make a big difference, plus some infantry and cavalry that he needs to dedicate heavies or void archons to really touching. Will see how it goes!
Cheers, Dave
|
|
|
Post by zwergenkrieger on Jun 3, 2020 13:41:41 GMT
What about Kallus1 or Fyanna2 with lots of bodies? I mean a lot of bodies. Just swarm the board and either use high DEF or Recursion to overwhelm your opponent.
|
|