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Post by mandra on Apr 22, 2020 1:49:23 GMT
Hi, this is what I found here and there, which lists can I do with this minis?which of this minis are useless?thank youuu!  -harby -severius1 -severius2 -hierophant -avatar of menoth -blessing of vengeance -judicator -reckoner -redeemer -castigator -exemplar errant max + ua -guard cleanser max + officer -exemplar cineretors max -choir of menoth max -wracks -covenant of menoth -elias Gade -exemplar errant seneschal |
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685 
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Post by Cyel on Apr 22, 2020 12:44:39 GMT
Nowadays factions are divided into Theme Forces much more than they used to. While theoretically you can play without Themes (and those my favourite games now, go figure!), few players do, as Themes provide free bonuses. In your collection all warcasters, warjacks (with the exception of the Avatar) as well as choir and wracks are universal and can be used in any theme. -Cleansers come from the Flameguard Theme Force - Guardians of the Temple. -Errants, Cinerators, Gade and Seneschal are from the Exemplar Interdiction. -Covenant and Avatar can't be used in any of the above, but can appear, alongside the universal models in The Creator's Might - a theme focusing on warjacks. So my suggestion would be to get rid of your Cleansers (unless you hope to build a Guardians army in the future) and focus on the Exemplar Interdiction and the Creator's Might. With Judicator being pretty cool in both of those themes (by being awesome overall) investing in a Mechanik -another universal solo - would be my first, cheap choice. Try to build some lists in those Themes first and we'll see what they are lacking. Use conflictchamber.com/ if not sure about points values etc. |
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Post by mandra on Apr 23, 2020 16:53:40 GMT
So my suggestion would be to get rid of your Cleansers (unless you hope to build a Guardians army in the future) and focus on the Exemplar Interdiction and the Creator's Might. With Judicator being pretty cool in both of those themes (by being awesome overall) investing in a Mechanik -another universal solo - would be my first, cheap choice. Try to build some lists in those Themes first and we'll see what they are lacking. Use conflictchamber.com/ if not sure about points values etc. Thank you really helpful! |
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Apr 23, 2020 17:10:56 GMT
One small thing - Gade, being a Warder, is also available in the Creator's Might!
Generic Exemplar Warders are really good solos by the way, very useful in both those themes.
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Apr 23, 2020 18:18:01 GMT
I wouldn't say "get rid of cleansers," just be aware that they have a very narrow niche.
pros:
LOTS of fire.
sprays for days.
able to extend range and assault, resulting in one of the longer threat ranges in the faction.
cons:
difficulty hitting (RAT5)
easily killed (DEF 11, 13 is opponent can't ignore ashen veil, and ARM 13)
in a bad theme list
So basically you need to either find a way to fix the RAT, or crank the damage to make up for the number that will miss, AND either significantly buff their defenses or find a way to make them a one-shot cannon. At the moment, the best bet imo is Malekus (feat cranks damage, could Scourge a high-priority target to ensure they hit) or Sevvy1 (Eye of Menoth helps hit & damage, Defender's Ward brings them to decent def stats).
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Apr 23, 2020 20:27:43 GMT
I wouldn't say "get rid of cleansers," just be aware that they have a very narrow niche. cons:The main con in this case is that in mandra's collection they are a lone Guardians unit with no other friends from their theme, so using them would require the most purchases. It's easier and cheaper to concentrate on those Themes that already have some significant presence in this collection. The actual value of the unit itself is not taken into consideration with my "get rid" advice, it's just that they don't really fit with the rest. |
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Apr 23, 2020 21:15:12 GMT
Fair point, I was mostly trying to discourage "getting rid" of them, or that they're "useless," as was asked initially. Though a jack-heavy Guardians list could be made with those models. Arguably a Sevvy1 Guardians-list would be just as viable as a Creator's Might. You don't benefit from an theme benefits (yet another reason Guardians is a weak theme), but there aren't a lot of models benefiting in Creator's Might either.
Easy 35 pt list:
Sevvy1
Blessings of Vengeance
Judicator
min Choir
min Cleansers + UA
2 Wracks
Granted, a Judicator at 35 pts makes any list fairly easy to make, and is kinda mean.
That said, if the goal is to reach the standard, 75-pt level right away, I agree Exemplar Interdiction is the best option.
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Post by mandra on Apr 23, 2020 22:57:42 GMT
Thank you guys!  I need to get the hang of it to to understand how to best use the various themes, but I accept the advice to start with exemplar interdiction! Holy zealots are in the same theme of cleansers and they are not good right?there are lists with them? I found this list and I could get all the pieces: conflictchamber.com/?c2201b_-1r0JlVm0lM1q3t2_lZlS2lbQ2vm2Protectorate [Theme] Exemplar Interdiction [High Reclaimer 1] The High Reclaimer [+32] - Judicator [35] High Exemplar Gravus [8] Scrutator Potentate Severius [0(6)] - Dervish [7] Vassal Mechanik [1] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Exemplar Cinerators (max) [13] - Exemplar Cinerator Officer [0(5)] Exemplar Errants (min) [10] - Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard [0(4)] Exemplar Vengers (max) [20] Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard [9] Is that still good? |
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Apr 24, 2020 4:47:50 GMT
GASP! Shut your mouth about Zealots not being good!
Anyways, no Zealots are not in the same theme as cleansers. Cleansers are in Guardians, Zealots are in Faithful Masses.
As for the uses for Zealots, they're typically not something you rely on for a ton. But they're cheap for what they do, and can make a great tarpit with their mini-feat. Their best uses fall in either Reclaimer1&2 lists (cheap souls, get to double-dip on soul collection with mini-feat), Malekus (the bombs are fire. Malekus feat boosts fire. Profit), or Kreoss (Zealots, like cleansers, struggle to hit. Auto-kd feat fixes).
Finally, as for the list, I must confess I have literally never played with the Reclaimer. So all I can say is I'm concerned at the different speeds/threat ranges you have. I prefer to have most of my list make contact at the same time, rather then multiple waves. But again, no experience with the caster.
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Apr 24, 2020 6:16:36 GMT
I found this list and I could get all the pieces: conflictchamber.com/?c2201b_-1r0JlVm0lM1q3t2_lZlS2lbQ2vm2Protectorate [Theme] Exemplar Interdiction [High Reclaimer 1] The High Reclaimer [+32] - Judicator [35] High Exemplar Gravus [8] Scrutator Potentate Severius [0(6)] - Dervish [7] Vassal Mechanik [1] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Exemplar Cinerators (max) [13] - Exemplar Cinerator Officer [0(5)] Exemplar Errants (min) [10] - Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard [0(4)] Exemplar Vengers (max) [20] Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard [9] Is that still good? This list is going to be really potent. I've been playing a bit with something very similar and it can be really brutal and surprisingly fast.
If you want, you may want to exchange Rhoven for Gade (or even better regular Warder) and Dervish-Redeemer upgrade (as you already own the models). Believe me, you will like Severius0 with Redeemer |
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Post by mandra on Apr 25, 2020 23:29:55 GMT
Great!I'll go with the redeemer and Gaze than!I'm happy that I have found a solid list haha!
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