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Post by jrock589 on Mar 16, 2020 21:51:48 GMT
Hello everyone! Another Battle Report! Check it Out: Stryker 2 v OmodamosComments & Criticisms appreciated. |
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Post by darkangeldentist on Mar 17, 2020 16:41:56 GMT
Nicely written report although I was left very confused why you put arcane shield onto the storm blades to start with. I've seen and used it far more often on the storm lances and with unyielding it makes them a really tough unit to remove in melee. (ARM 22 with boxes, even charging that can be a challenge for most things to remove.)
Wonderful to hear about a game where Savio got to survive long enough to swing and even riposte! I've used him a lot and know how rarely it happens but those few times should be treasured.
Thank you for sharing.
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Post by jrock589 on Mar 17, 2020 20:28:43 GMT
Nicely written report although I was left very confused why you put arcane shield onto the storm blades to start with. I've seen and used it far more often on the storm lances and with unyielding it makes them a really tough unit to remove in melee. (ARM 22 with boxes, even charging that can be a challenge for most things to remove.) Wonderful to hear about a game where Savio got to survive long enough to swing and even riposte! I've used him a lot and know how rarely it happens but those few times should be treasured. Thank you for sharing. In my experience, I can usually keep the Lances safe long enough to deliver them vs. shooting in early turns at Arm 19 (with Decel). However, the Blades at Arm 17 (15 + Decel) are still vulnerable with single boxes (even with Tough from Rhupert) to both shooting and blasts. As a result, I usually want the Stormblades to have Arcane Shield in the early turns and then have them with Arcane Shield for their mini-feat turn to sit at Arm (15+3+2+3) 23 in melee with tough + No KD. My experience is also that after delivery all these models are fodder to the counterattack (Survivors are the lucky ones). Stormblades have the advantage of getting lots of bodies in that requires volume from your opponent to chew through and they also produce volume on Stryker2's feat - so I usually want as many of them stuck in as possible on Feat turn. Having between 8 and 11 bodies is the big advantage here for me. Also...Small bases are amazing on Stryker2's feat turn. Lots of ability to fan out and make a problem for your opponent to solve. That's always been my logic with Stryker2 anyway. It may be a quirk of my own play that is ultimately a mistake, but who knows? |
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Post by darkangeldentist on Mar 17, 2020 22:20:16 GMT
My experience is also that after delivery all these models are fodder to the counterattack (Survivors are the lucky ones). Stormblades have the advantage of getting lots of bodies in that requires volume from your opponent to chew through and they also produce volume on Stryker2's feat - so I usually want as many of them stuck in as possible on Feat turn. Having between 8 and 11 bodies is the big advantage here for me. Also...Small bases are amazing on Stryker2's feat turn. Lots of ability to fan out and make a problem for your opponent to solve. That's always been my logic with Stryker2 anyway. It may be a quirk of my own play that is ultimately a mistake, but who knows? It might just be down to a difference in play and list design. I noticed that your list has no Stormblade captain solo (for tactician), which I almost always bring. He's quite a good jack marshal too (drive: repo 5") so my storm blades run up behind a line of storm lances and are thus pretty much safe from blasts and direct fire. I don't play Stryker2 at all but decel' and arcane shield on lances would make them immune to all but the more potent of gun shots. I completely agree with your comments about the number of bodies being a benefit, particularly with Stryker2. Both for the feat and requiring usually more effort to remove them just to being spread out and volume of attacks over quality. I think the difference between our views on this comes more from a difference in approach and playstyle. I deliver my storm blades by having them run up behind lances who can pretty reliably survive most enemy gunfire and in turn the blades can clear off most things that attempt to run in to body-block the lances from getting a good charge off. I can do all of this because tactician from the captain means all of my storm knights can see and move through each other. However, you don't have one in your list so it's not an option and I didn't fully appreciate this when I first made my comment. |
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Post by jrock589 on Mar 18, 2020 19:37:15 GMT
My experience is also that after delivery all these models are fodder to the counterattack (Survivors are the lucky ones). Stormblades have the advantage of getting lots of bodies in that requires volume from your opponent to chew through and they also produce volume on Stryker2's feat - so I usually want as many of them stuck in as possible on Feat turn. Having between 8 and 11 bodies is the big advantage here for me. Also...Small bases are amazing on Stryker2's feat turn. Lots of ability to fan out and make a problem for your opponent to solve. That's always been my logic with Stryker2 anyway. It may be a quirk of my own play that is ultimately a mistake, but who knows? It might just be down to a difference in play and list design. I noticed that your list has no Stormblade captain solo (for tactician), which I almost always bring. He's quite a good jack marshal too (drive: repo 5") so my storm blades run up behind a line of storm lances and are thus pretty much safe from blasts and direct fire. I don't play Stryker2 at all but decel' and arcane shield on lances would make them immune to all but the more potent of gun shots. I completely agree with your comments about the number of bodies being a benefit, particularly with Stryker2. Both for the feat and requiring usually more effort to remove them just to being spread out and volume of attacks over quality. I think the difference between our views on this comes more from a difference in approach and playstyle. I deliver my storm blades by having them run up behind lances who can pretty reliably survive most enemy gunfire and in turn the blades can clear off most things that attempt to run in to body-block the lances from getting a good charge off. I can do all of this because tactician from the captain means all of my storm knights can see and move through each other. However, you don't have one in your list so it's not an option and I didn't fully appreciate this when I first made my comment. I definitely see where you are coming from. I have never included a Stormblade Captain because I often find that tactician is not needed. Usually I am spreading out across the line and flanking heavily with my Lances, and as a result there is limited layering of the Storm-nouned units. It is something I will need to look at. With this strategy - do you find you are forced to leave a flank "exposed" for your opponent to exploit for scenario? A lot of the 2019 SR scenarios are very wide horizontally, and I would be hesitant to focus too hard in the centre. |
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Post by darkangeldentist on Mar 18, 2020 22:05:24 GMT
It varies dependent on caster. I used to run a Haley3 list that did this and the blades running up behind worked out pretty well as a brick that would start by heading up the centre and then committing to a flank once I knew where they needed to be. The blades having an assault threat of 14" with their guns helped a lot but my more recent lists have seen an increase in solos and an attempt to use the stormsmith grenadiers (who with Haley3 are quite fun) so the blades got dropped. With other casters such as Caine1 and Maddox the blades can make excellent use of snipe to grant them a particularly impressive 18-24" threat range with the storm blade captain's firefly being able to get forward easily thanks to reposition. This lessens the issues from bunching up in the centre as the lances can commit to either flank easily after a turn 1 run up the field to occupy space and the blades fusillade of lightning shots provides ample support in most situations. I have probably left myself weak to one flank in some games because of this but I've also generally run field mechanics and light jacks who I can commit to holding a near zone, at least to contest whilst I try and win the battle elsewhere. Field mechanics with Haley3 can be surprisingly obnoxious to remove thanks to Temporal distortion. It's worth noting that I deploy my blades in front of my lances when going first so that the blades are further up the table after their run move and the lances then run through them. (Because of tactician.) It means the lances are only about 23" up the table when going first but that's still close to the centre line and able to threaten a lot of the relevant table space. Without snipe that means the blades can threaten 31" up the board on turn 2 with their assault shots. (More if they have snipe.) |
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Post by jrock589 on Mar 19, 2020 17:32:37 GMT
It varies dependent on caster. I used to run a Haley3 list that did this and the blades running up behind worked out pretty well as a brick that would start by heading up the centre and then committing to a flank once I knew where they needed to be. The blades having an assault threat of 14" with their guns helped a lot but my more recent lists have seen an increase in solos and an attempt to use the stormsmith grenadiers (who with Haley3 are quite fun) so the blades got dropped. With other casters such as Caine1 and Maddox the blades can make excellent use of snipe to grant them a particularly impressive 18-24" threat range with the storm blade captain's firefly being able to get forward easily thanks to reposition. This lessens the issues from bunching up in the centre as the lances can commit to either flank easily after a turn 1 run up the field to occupy space and the blades fusillade of lightning shots provides ample support in most situations. I have probably left myself weak to one flank in some games because of this but I've also generally run field mechanics and light jacks who I can commit to holding a near zone, at least to contest whilst I try and win the battle elsewhere. Field mechanics with Haley3 can be surprisingly obnoxious to remove thanks to Temporal distortion. It's worth noting that I deploy my blades in front of my lances when going first so that the blades are further up the table after their run move and the lances then run through them. (Because of tactician.) It means the lances are only about 23" up the table when going first but that's still close to the centre line and able to threaten a lot of the relevant table space. Without snipe that means the blades can threaten 31" up the board on turn 2 with their assault shots. (More if they have snipe.) I'll have to give some of this a try. Thanks for the tips.  Curios - How are you using the Grenadiers with Haley3? I've owned them forever but only ever tabled them once or twice and strictly for fun. |
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Post by darkangeldentist on Mar 19, 2020 20:10:17 GMT
Curios - How are you using the Grenadiers with Haley3? I've owned them forever but only ever tabled them once or twice and strictly for fun. My last couple of games with the grenadiers left me rather fond of them. With Haley3 they are nice little versatile unit for problem solving/creating. Force barrier and temporal distortion makes them quite difficult to remove at range (and that's before you consider any terrain buffs) and ghost walk solves the issue of them being tied up by enemy models trying to engage them. Their shot types are very useful, particularly for clearing out chaff (temporal distortion to make them RAT 8, ghost walk so they are never stuck in melee) as you can chuck out a vortex shot that will drag models together and eat blast damage (POW 9 with a firefly nearby) or, if they are too tough to kill, follow up with a kinetic grip shot. Kinetic grip is very handy because it's the only one that works on hit. So you can take a chance on a lucky scatter and still slow enemy models down. Keeping them alive is still an issue but I have put tactical supremacy on them and felt it relatively worthwhile. There's also revive to bring back a lost member of the unit. Most of the time though they aren't enough of a threat to make the enemy focus on them and they aren't easy enough to kill that random low quality shots will kill them. I had a game against Old witch2 who thanks to windstorm ought to have made them next to useless but even with only a 1" range just legged it up the table, walked carefully around engagement ranges and lobbed AOEs. They managed to wipe out a unit of widowmakers, kill a kayazy eliminator and rain kinetic shots onto his jacks forcing a much slower pace than my opponent would have liked. On the turn he didn't cast windstorm they even managed to get lucky with the damage rolls and put a column or so of damage with their shots. (POW 15 with the firefly so I was rolling quite hot there.) In another game they got to make khador stormtroopers slow and sad and they are (again with the help of a firefly) quite capable of dealing a lot of hurt to a unit like demo-corp. (First shot to place a hazard, hope you don't roll so hot you kill him, second is a vortex to drag all his buddies into the now POW 12 hazard on top of the POW 9 blast damage.) |
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