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Post by michael on May 14, 2020 14:01:27 GMT
.:: Not sure how I feel about adding vehicles to this skirmish game, especially before it's even been released (but after people have paid for it). 2. That model is clearly too large for a 50mm base, but too small for a 120mm. Thinking we would need a new base size. Well, remember that the next KS wave won’t happen until August or so. The first KS has releases all the way out until October.
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Post by beardmonk on May 15, 2020 8:20:25 GMT
"light vehicles" implies the existence of "heavy vehicles" doesn't it?
Sort of seems that Warcaster has broken the boundaries of a quick skirmish game before the first Kickstarter has landed with people.
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Post by Soul Samurai on May 15, 2020 9:06:23 GMT
"light vehicles" implies the existence of "heavy vehicles" doesn't it? Not necessarily; larger vehicles clearly exist within the fluff (they would have to, that thing is quite small compared to the average real-world military vehicle) so it would make sense to call it "light" regardless of whether heavier vehicles exist on the tabletop, that doesn't necessarily mean they will arrive on the tabletop. Though I wouldn't be too surprised if they do eventually tbh; adding new unit types seems to be a normal part of keeping a wargame alive.
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Post by Charistoph on May 15, 2020 10:58:52 GMT
"light vehicles" implies the existence of "heavy vehicles" doesn't it? Not necessarily; larger vehicles clearly exist within the fluff (they would have to, that thing is quite small compared to the average real-world military vehicle) so it would make sense to call it "light" regardless of whether heavier vehicles exist on the tabletop, that doesn't necessarily mean they will arrive on the tabletop. Though I wouldn't be too surprised if they do eventually tbh; adding new unit types seems to be a normal part of keeping a wargame alive. Well, we honestly thought they would never include Colossals on to the tabletop. Of course, they fooled us by bringing mini-Colossals on to the tabletop and just called them Colossals.
If the game is going good for a while, it wouldn't surprise me to see light tanks or even main battle tanks on the table, but I hope they expand the system to handle the scope of it rather than trying to add them in to a skirmish level game like with what happened with Colossals and Battle Engines.
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Post by Soul Samurai on May 15, 2020 12:34:12 GMT
I agree, I prefer small scale games to stay small scale. Perhaps if larger models are only allowed in a slightly altered gamemode/ruleset (like 40k apocalypse I guess) that would allow the game to expand while avoiding scale creep on the original game?
I mean, there's already a colon in the game name. So maybe Warcaster: Neomechanica stays small scale, and Warcaster: Planetshaker is large scale, etc.
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Post by Charistoph on May 15, 2020 12:46:45 GMT
Yeah, kind of like the difference between Kill Team and 40K, but with PP's focus on rule clarity instead of GW's monkeys with a dart board.
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Post by michael on May 15, 2020 14:00:44 GMT
"light vehicles" implies the existence of "heavy vehicles" doesn't it? Sort of seems that Warcaster has broken the boundaries of a quick skirmish game before the first Kickstarter has landed with people. I think it is infinitely too early to say that. For all we know, the Razorbat is the Marcher Worlds’ SPD 10 version of the Aeternus Continuum Marauder (i.e. effectively a beefy solo), but still something that dies after 2 damage.
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Post by michael on May 15, 2020 14:12:33 GMT
Also, to add some further thoughts: We will absolutely, eventually see models on 120mm bases, as well as an intermediate base size between 50 and 120. (My guess is 90mm, but who knows!) Will we eventually see tanks? Who knows! I suspect one reason that light vehicles are coming out so soon is to establish them firmly in the game early on. PP has to overcome the “just Warmachine in space” perceptual inertia that some customers seem to have. Different model types help do that both visually and immediately. Plus, I’m sure they are having fun branching out and doing new stuff too! I’m looking forward to one or two of those Razorbats for Christmas!
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Post by Soul Samurai on May 15, 2020 14:34:39 GMT
PP has to overcome the “just Warmachine in space” perceptual inertia that some customers seem to have. Different model types help do that both visually and immediately. That's a good point.
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Post by Charistoph on May 15, 2020 18:02:45 GMT
I suspect one reason that light vehicles are coming out so soon is to establish them firmly in the game early on. PP has to overcome the “just Warmachine in space” perceptual inertia that some customers seem to have. Different model types help do that both visually and immediately. A very good point. Some people are fearing it will be Infinity in scale, and some are hoping it will be Infinity in scale. This Razorbat is probably a little bit bigger than Haqqislam's TAG, the scorpion-shaped Maghariba Guard. It probably fills the same role as the FAV/DPV.
Is it needed at this point in time? Maybe, it's probably a good Wave 2 introduction, but it feels really soon to be deploying information on it to me when general release of your Wave 1 has yet to happen. It does show confidence in the line, though.
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snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Post by snoozer on May 16, 2020 8:23:24 GMT
A light vehicle feels so much better than "just another warjackchassis" or the same unit but slightly better/differend. If you bought into the KS the vehicle is a nice addon but nothing that instantly devaluates your other stuff. It's just new and differend. It does not change the game balance a ton, since it will go into the same direction as a jack, but with less focus and weapons and more speed. Were any stats actually leaked already?
Concerning big things: MW talked on field of fire about how they are going to include vehicles and maybe big stuff in the future. But one thing they probably don't even know themselves right now is how thst relates to portals. Portals are a key element of how warcaster works. But heavy warjacks require 4 of 5 arc, so that's close to the limit (and you couldn't go above 7 anyways) . Also a heavy or that light vehicle would fit through that expanding portal, a 120 mm size base would be ridicioulus. So you would have to make bigger portals and to use more than one. This is stretching far over what your 7 arc can and should be able to do.
Right now the game size (what you bring, not what you get to use on the table) feels like a small 40k match, maybe 750/1000 points. A few dudes a cybot or two and a landspeeder. About what they would feature in those old codices, 3rd edition. For this light vehicles port the game feel away from skirmish only to "real" sci fi tabletop. Much better solution that heavy weapon crews that would be horrible rules wise with the way units work.
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Post by michael on May 16, 2020 14:33:29 GMT
There’s always room in the rules for a “super gate” and Unbound-sized rules that have multiple “warcasters” participating on each side, in practice allowing, say, 14 ARC per turn and doubling the per-turn allocation limits. Or, the really heavy units (tanks, colossal-equivalents, etc.) could just be deployed at the start of the battle (and only at the start of the battle) and represent assets already planetside, or similar. Lots of room for explanations.
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Post by Charistoph on May 16, 2020 21:35:57 GMT
A light vehicle feels so much better than "just another warjackchassis" or the same unit but slightly better/differend. If you bought into the KS the vehicle is a nice addon but nothing that instantly devaluates your other stuff. It's just new and differend. It does not change the game balance a ton, since it will go into the same direction as a jack, but with less focus and weapons and more speed. There is that, but there are a lot of reasons we don't use a buggy and motorcycles in certain operations, and that could indicate the scope that they want to take the game.
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Post by Soul Samurai on May 21, 2020 8:17:51 GMT
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Asmoridin
Junior Strategist
Getting back into the game after too long a hiatus!
Posts: 323
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Post by Asmoridin on May 21, 2020 14:21:03 GMT
Looks pretty cool- were these going to be part of a future Kickstarter? Did they specify?
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