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Post by zerfius on Apr 24, 2017 16:06:56 GMT
Hey all,
I see a lot of posts regarding some advanced strategies, out of the box list pairings, and other strategy/list creation threads that are geared more toward the experienced player. Are there any basic strategy tips or advice you can share for those of us who are newer? I know there is the new player forum, but I am looking for Khador specific tips and strategies. From what I have read, I know a lot depends on your local meta, but would be interested to hear some things you picked up along the way that you wished you knew when you were new.
Thanks!
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Post by auraco on Apr 24, 2017 16:56:08 GMT
Play games?
Well play games and learn from your mistake. Also one of the thing that comes up the most often with new players, deploy centrally there shouldn't be huge 5'' gaps between your different models. That's about it.
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Post by zerfius on Apr 24, 2017 16:58:56 GMT
Play games? Well play games and learn from your mistake. Also one of the thing that comes up the most often with new players, deploy centrally there shouldn't be huge 5'' gaps between your different models. That's about it. The deployment piece is good. I have struggled with that. I tried one game where I had everything stacked more to the middle and I had trouble unpacking. The issue I see is how to determine the activation order to move everything most effectively. |
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Post by auraco on Apr 24, 2017 17:09:00 GMT
Live and learn I guess, there is no absolute rule and it depends on the terrain on the board. If you caster has a speed buff you will probably want him to be one of the first model to activate, if he doesn't it doesn't really matter as long as he can still walk and put his buffs where they are needed.
It also depends on the terrain on the board and the spells available to your casters. If you park a juggernaut behind a wall without access to boundless charge your might enjoy the cover against shooting but realise that the juggy can't get to anything because it's blocked by terrain, if your caster has boundless charge or mobility, go for it and use it, people are usually annoyed by having to boost to hit a khadoran jack. Same goes for the rest of the army.
One of the first cue that I'm playing against a beginner is when they deploy their stuff and there is a 3'' gap between each jack and unit, it usually mean that the models on the edge of the board will get to the party one turn late because they can only threathen so much from their position. It is possible ton flank in this game, but it's not usually done by deploying something 5'' away from a table edge.
Considering the great diversity of model khador can field it would probably be easier to help you if I knew what kind of list you plan on running.
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Post by Irusk2K on Apr 24, 2017 18:13:31 GMT
Welcome to the Motherland
Here are some really basic things for new players to keep in mind:
1. Pre Measure! Always! No Matter What! Always ask for the max threat, both charging and shooting, for your opponent's army and make sure you don't accidentally leave something important in range.
2. Keep you caster safe! Even the toughest casters can get shot off the board or wiped out by a charging jack/beast. Before you start a turn think about where your caster will end up and what you're are going to use to block line of site and charges.
3. Don't forget about the scenario, if you are using one. At the start of the game have a general idea on how you are going to score points and/or how your are going to prevent your from scoring. There is nothing more frustrating than to be winning a battle and suddenly lose by forgetting to have a something contest a zone or flag.
Once you feel good about that kind of stuff you can start focusing on list building and using slightly more advanced strategies.
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496 
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Post by Growl on Apr 24, 2017 19:13:33 GMT
As a follow up to what Irusk2K said in his #1, don't just ask about what max threat range is, but further clarify if there are any spells or abilities from other models that can be used to increase the threat of things. You would hope that your opponent would know what you mean when you ask what the threat range of something is, but don't always rely on that. I also tend to ask for game changing things from my opponent before I deploy. So if I am playing Widowmakers, or other shooty things, I ask, "What do you have that has Stealth or gives Stealth?" If I am playing with my Kayazy Eliminators or something like that, "What do you have that can see through Stealth, or remove Stealth?" Then I make sure I deploy accordingly. The same applies to things that are blast Immune or spell immune or Steady or Stationary immune etc. The goal is to keep myself from sending my stuff at things they can't do anything against. Deploying everything close together is typically a better way to deploy, but will take practice to learn how to keep things out of your way. I think one way to get better at that is to try to stick to one or 2 lists for several games to really learn them. One list at first blush might get wrecked, but after you become more proficient could become dominant. |
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Post by Blargaliscious on Apr 24, 2017 20:03:36 GMT
There is enough diversity in what Khador has to take that a "How To Play Khador" article is hard to do. It boils down to a 3 dimensional puzzle that depends on your warcaster, the rest of your force, and what your opponent does with his army.
In my opinion Khador is the "no frills, no tricks" faction. Khador' schtick is that they don't have a schtick - the closest thing to a basic military faction. With that in mind, your best bet is to read history books and find out *how* battles were won, not who, what, when, or where. Learn to think with a military mind.
Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from poor judgment. Play games, try to win, but embrace the defeats as an opportunity to learn. After every game ask your opponent, regardless, what you did right and what you did wrong.
And as you play the games, and learn the game, make sure you learn yourself in regards to Khador. What works for me may not work for you, and what works for others might not work for you either.
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Post by Netherby on Apr 25, 2017 0:09:01 GMT
There isn't really a catch all general strategy I can write about. It varies too much based on your caster, your list and the scenario.
There are some basic things to think about as a new player:
1) As others have said, you need to really think about your caster placement. New players lose most of their games by simply putting their caster somewhere they don't realise is almost guaranteed to get them killed. An experienced opponent SHOULD point this out to a new player and explain why and how it gets you killed. It's pretty much the most important thing you need to learn as a new player!
2) Think about where you want things to move in the first turn durning deployment. It is very easy to deploy in a way that has you tripping all over your own models or terrain. A slow model that gets stuck behind something or has to move through difficult terrain may never end up getting into the fight before the game is over. Also think about the range of your casters spells. You need line of sight and range to put down your upkeeps. Think about that before you deploy and before you move.
General deployment rule is: Slowest models as far forward as possible. Caster in range of the unit(s) you plan to buff. Support directly behind and as close as possible to the model(s) they are supporting.
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Post by Irusk2K on Apr 25, 2017 13:00:22 GMT
Here are some more recommendations that are slightly more geared towards Khador (though they also apply to a lot of other armies):
1. Extend your threat range. A large majority of our models are, naturally, slow and/or lack pathfinder. What is great is there are a lot of ways to mitigate this. Almost all of our casters have ways to speed up at least one jack (Irusk1, Butcher2), quite a few can speed up their whole battlegroup (Harkavich1, Vlad1), and some can speed up their entire army (Kazlov1, Strakhov1). There are also support models you can take both in faction and mercs that help to get you to an enemy first (MoW Kovnik, Orrik). In addition to this we have a good selection of ranged models that most opponents can't ignore (Widowmakers, Winter Guard - any).
2. Run on Turn 1. As stated in #1 as a faction our models are kind of slow so you are going to want to get up the board as fast as you can. Keep in mind pre-measuring rule from above though and don't give up anything important early on.
3. Shoot first. Quite a few of our ranged models have low RAT and/or can't shoot into melee so you'll want to soften things up first as opposed to using shooting to clean up after melee. Keep in mind not to block Charge lanes though (see number 4).
4. Charge! Like I said above a lot of our stuff can be kind of slow so lining up a charge can make the difference between delivering a devastating Alpha strike and taking one.
5. Piece trade up. Sometimes you just won't be able to get an Alpha and if you play carefully (pre-measure!) you'll prevent your opponent from getting one too. In this case you or your opponent will start a piece trade. Luckily Khador is really good at this since we have very cheap models that are still very effective. Moving a cheap unit (Winter Guard Infantry) or Jack (Marauder or Jug) up to within charge range on your opponent's front line fill force them to commit something (hopefully something worth more points) to take out your model(s). You then retaliate with something cheap to take take out that model and so on. If you play it right you should end up spending less points on this back and forth than your opponent leaving you with the advantage when one of you fully commits to the fight. Just make sure your opponent doesn't have a way to skew this trading with things like heavy shooting, cheaper models (buffed with spells), or spells and abilities that can extend a model's threat range. There are a lot of things out there that can give a model or unit a little bit of extra movement when they destroy a model, when something else in the army destroys a model, or when you destroy one of their models, this can turn a piece trade into an Alpha strike for your opponent so be careful.
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Post by HereComesTomorrow on Apr 25, 2017 16:33:23 GMT
1. Run forward.
2. Apply axe.
Thats it.
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Apr 25, 2017 17:18:05 GMT
I was going to say run forward screaming.
There are a lot of really good points in all these posts. I will personally add:
Don't be afraid to play for fun. Don't be afraid to make a move for fun or comedic purposes. Even "high level" games are better when they involve fun. And sometimes you can get surprising results by doing what your opponent might not expect.
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mtrox
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 4
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Post by mtrox on May 7, 2017 13:08:58 GMT
A good strategy a friend has shared is figure out how to do the most damage to your opponent while minimizing damage to your stuff. It sounds simple but can get rather complex. Picking optimal targets and trading effectively is the difference between a good and a great player. If you can kill your opponents stuff while protecting yours you'll be in a pretty good spot. Look at your opponents next turn. If you use your Juggernaut to kill a jack, will it be in range of another Jack? Can you afford to lose that Jack and if so and do you have a response lined up?
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on May 7, 2017 15:01:08 GMT
That is really very simple but very good advice! Maybe I just need to get better, but I know that I have basically lost games by wasting time or sacrificing a model that was not worth what I was doing. It is in line I think with holding on to my FEAT too long, waiting for the right moment to turn the game around, when I could have set the game in the steady direction of a win if I had FEATED 2 turns ago.
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Post by zerfius on May 8, 2017 12:12:16 GMT
The thing I struggle with right now as a new player is determining the alpha. I do not know what is the biggest threat to me on the other side of the board. I know this comes with time and experience. but I know it is important so I want to get better at it sooner rather than later.
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mtrox
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 4
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Post by mtrox on May 8, 2017 12:28:21 GMT
In regards to the alpha, Khador is one faction where it matters a a little less. I came from Circle where getting the alpha is key to winning with them. With Khador it is much less so. A strategy I enjoy is "baiting" an alpha strike. Some players like to over commit stuff. Put a unit just within the threat ranges of their units (IFP & MOW are great for this. Also Widowmakers because of their low points) and get them to commit something much more important. You then respond by shredding said thing. It takes practice but Khador is awesome at this. This harkens back to the "trading effectively" thing I was talking about previously.
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