Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496 
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Post by Growl on Sept 22, 2019 14:18:33 GMT
I’m particularly wondering about Judicators and Harbringer and things like that? Vlad2 in wolves, or any wolves list really I think would fail hard against Harby. Is Jaws good, or AK? Also what do your lists look like and casters etc.? Menoth has always given me such a hard time.
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Post by auraco on Sept 22, 2019 19:30:00 GMT
Wait, why would Wolves fail in Harby?!?! It’s our theme with the most anti healing, by far.
I’ve been playing Vlad2 wolves into pretty much all of menoth without any issues. I mean it’s not an auto win, but it has all the tools to play the match up. You have a couple of tools to play around martyrdom with fell curse and grevious wounds, and soon entropic force. You have arcane might to play around awe, and you’re the one putting scenario pressure.
I don’t see how jaws is suppose to work here, it doesn’t have a good volume of attack and play to punish harby for using martyrdom, so it just seems like a terrible match up for us if going wolves against harby.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Sept 23, 2019 1:04:32 GMT
Our local Menoth player has been dropping Kreoss 2 Exemplar dudespam, and Reznik 2. Vlad 2 Wolves has worked in both cases, although you do kind of need a plan to kill Madelyn (with the Outriders) if you want to use the doomreavers to assinate Reznik.
Guns would also work, but if I wanted to rely on WGK I’d probably need to bite the bullet and swap in the Assault Kommandos.
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Sept 23, 2019 1:34:44 GMT
auraco maybe I am missing something, so if you don’t mind enlightening me I would appreciate it, it wouldn’t Harby’s FEAT totally kill wolves of winter? I think with Vlad2, you can maybe cut down on the effectiveness of Judi’s shooting, but I think the single wound infantry would get wiped out. That’s why I was wondering about AK or Jaws.
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Post by auraco on Sept 23, 2019 2:04:38 GMT
auraco maybe I am missing something, so if you don’t mind enlightening me I would appreciate it, it wouldn’t Harby’s FEAT totally kill wolves of winter? I think with Vlad2, you can maybe cut down on the effectiveness of Judi’s shooting, but I think the single wound infantry would get wiped out. That’s why I was wondering about AK or Jaws. Well it buys him a turn, if he bunches up everything close to harby, but Vlad2 wolves is such a high pressure build that if he doesn't feat turn one he's already in danger, and if he does feat turn one, well you can just retreat a bit without giving up too much board space. Yeah the judicator will kill some reavers, but you're suppose to have a lot of these around, if you spread well it's fine, if he stays at the edge of your threat range he'll lose on scenario. All the stuff that bunch up to benefit from martyrdom and awe does tend to be great for when you go in with outriders or fenris, and if he doesn't keep stuff close to harby, well then it becomes mostly unsupported menoth models, so easy prey for us. What kind of build do you have in mind? I've played against both Harby faithfull masses and harby exemplar and came out on top every time, the faithfull masses list tend to be harder to deal with, but still a good match up for me I think. What gives you problem in the match up? I'm not seeing how Menoth would get rid of all the reavers running around... |
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Sept 23, 2019 3:38:09 GMT
auraco thanks for the response and ideas! After hearing what you have to say, I realize that you’ve got a really good point. I actually haven’t played against Menoth with Khador in quite some time, but I have had very bad experiences playing into them with Minions and with Cryx. The Vlad2 list that I’ve been running I think is quite strong, so I’m not sure how it would do? I mean more than anything is the risk of pilot error, so I guess I’ll have to see how it goes.
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Post by auraco on Sept 23, 2019 11:20:53 GMT
Advance deploy on all the reavers and their huge threat range with the feat and apparition means we can dictate the terms of engagement and either force an early feat out of harby or have a pretty big alpha strike before she can use it, these options are not really available to cryx and minions.
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Post by sand20go on Sept 23, 2019 18:27:27 GMT
Wait, why would Wolves fail in Harby?!?! It’s our theme with the most anti healing, by far. I’ve been playing Vlad2 wolves into pretty much all of menoth without any issues. I mean it’s not an auto win, but it has all the tools to play the match up. You have a couple of tools to play around martyrdom with fell curse and grevious wounds, and soon entropic force. You have arcane might to play around awe, and you’re the one putting scenario pressure. I don’t see how jaws is suppose to work here, it doesn’t have a good volume of attack and play to punish harby for using martyrdom, so it just seems like a terrible match up for us if going wolves against harby. Agree. It isn't an autowin but it is the best solution to generally what is being presented. I think the hardest part is that doomies are dice -9 into the Initiates. The main issue is list chicken - for while I think Vlad2 does FINE into Harby he is going to struggle with Shooting Menoth - for example when you have Sevy0, A Judie and then 3 redeemers. _IF_ he can resolve the drifts time efficiently that is a LOT of AOEs that can saturate even the best spread out doomies. The Redeemers can be out of range of all but feated apparating doomies and the Judie can be as well at 14. You really can't (depending on builds) put vlad far enough forward to try to catch the Judie in the pie plate of nope. So you are taking that shooting. With Eye and Battle the blasts are going to usually crack armor. Then it is mostly a question of luck - do the drifts catch mutliple doomies or do they miss entirely or just clip 1 who makes his tough check. THe main issue is that you are facing 7 of those AOEs....along with likely a volly of Iridian shots. |
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Sept 24, 2019 0:59:05 GMT
This type of discussion is what always leads me back to wanting a 5th unit of doomreavers. At that point, they’re close to disposable.
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Post by michael on Sept 24, 2019 3:43:24 GMT
This type of discussion is what always leads me back to wanting a 5th unit of doomreavers. At that point, they’re close to disposable. Life doesn’t begin until 7 units. |
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Sept 24, 2019 11:05:44 GMT
This type of discussion is what always leads me back to wanting a 5th unit of doomreavers. At that point, they’re close to disposable. Life doesn’t begin until 7 units. Unbound is not my normal jam. In a 75 point game, I’ve tried 7 with Strakhov. It’s fun. Vlad 2 might be better but no pathfinder sucks. |
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Post by michael on Sept 24, 2019 16:25:51 GMT
Life doesn’t begin until 7 units. Unbound is not my normal jam. In a 75 point game, I’ve tried 7 with Strakhov. It’s fun. Vlad 2 might be better but no pathfinder sucks. Actually, I have never used any Doom Reaver theme force in Unbound yet, so there! Besides, something something at least one full unit of female Doom Reavers with the female Greylord Escort something why would you use less than eight units in Unbound something or the other. |
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