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Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 2, 2019 12:28:40 GMT
I don't think the Demolisher can make both melee and ranged attacks in the same activation anymore?
The Demolisher might still be fun if you're running Hark or Andrei "MacGruber" Malakov 2, as you can get that shot out and still close up by your opponent's turn? I mean, I doubt it will ever be worth it, but it could be fun... maybe? Of course those two also benefit from standing next to a warjack, so it might as well be one with Girded.
Alternately if you're building a Sorscha pop-n-drop then the Demolisher brings two P+S 15 ranged attacks rather than a Destroyer's single P+S 14?
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jul 2, 2019 12:41:11 GMT
sand20go The only rules that make a model non-living are Undead and Construct. Everything without at least once of those rules is automatically living. This is also how the Accursed Arcana works, because you automatically "become" living by losing those rules, and thus provide corpses and souls. Note that having a soul or not is no prerequisite to be alive or dead, as there are Soulless living models (so without a soul) as well as Constructs with Soul Vessel (so with a soul).
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Jul 2, 2019 12:46:19 GMT
'Solve' is a strong word! The key points to bear in mind are that you are RAT4, and the blasts are 3". You often won't hit directly, and you won't hit a lot with the scattered blasts, and using the guns makes you worse at the primary job of being an indestructible lump. It's perfectly serviceable as a roadblock, but if that's what it's there for there's not a huge amount of use in paying the extra points over the Devastator Touche. ‘Solve’ is a bit much... Damnit, weren’t those guns 4” AOEs in MK2? That’s what they were in my head. I’ll take a sanity pill now and stop looking for special snowflakes. Except...maybe we should all be reaching for the Kossites? 🤔
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Post by hocestbellum on Jul 2, 2019 13:20:47 GMT
'Solve' is a strong word! The key points to bear in mind are that you are RAT4, and the blasts are 3". You often won't hit directly, and you won't hit a lot with the scattered blasts, and using the guns makes you worse at the primary job of being an indestructible lump. It's perfectly serviceable as a roadblock, but if that's what it's there for there's not a huge amount of use in paying the extra points over the Devastator Touche. ‘Solve’ is a bit much... Damnit, weren’t those guns 4” AOEs in MK2? That’s what they were in my head. I’ll take a sanity pill now and stop looking for special snowflakes. Except...maybe we should all be reaching for the Kossites? 🤔 Yeah, they were, and Destroyers had 3". Demolishers were a lot better in Mk2, but they got worse and their competition got better in Mk3. Sad times. I've always liked Kossites, but always disliked Jaws of the Wolf. With the theme force remix their main impediment is going to be that they're only available in a terrible theme! I feel like the 'auxiliary' troops (Kossites, Widowmakers, Manhunters) should be available in all our themes. Its kind of the entire purpose of troops like that, militarily speaking. Kossites used to swing so many games for me in Mk2, though. Ambush was 'within' not 'completely within', so you could sneak an extra inch, and they had Reposition to be annoying. Good times, good times. They were the only ranged ambush unit for a while, but the Pygs have snuck in there too. But having a 20" threat from any board edge, even at RAT4, would drive my opponents nuts
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 2, 2019 13:38:37 GMT
Yeah, they were, and Destroyers had 3". Demolishers were a lot better in Mk2, but they got worse and their competition got better in Mk3. Sad times. I mean, it never really made that much sense that the tiny grenades on the Demolisher were more powerful in terms of POW and AOE size than the giant cannon replacing the Destroyer's left arm. Yes, huge range advantage, but still. Destroyers going up to AOE 4 makes sense and works well. Demolishers going down to AOE 3 makes sense, but - due in part to other factors such as their cost - it leaves them in a bit of a bad place.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 2, 2019 15:57:21 GMT
sand20go The only rules that make a model non-living are Undead and Construct. Everything without at least once of those rules is automatically living. This is also how the Accursed Arcana works, because you automatically "become" living by losing those rules, and thus provide corpses and souls. Note that having a soul or not is no prerequisite to be alive or dead, as there are Soulless living models (so without a soul) as well as Constructs with Soul Vessel (so with a soul). THANK YOU.
So as I think about OW2's gun only the Derp Turtle (and amazingly the 2 Man of War Seige Chariots) lack the Construct tag and thus are living (and thus vulnerable to the blind effect). VERY good to know ;-)
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jul 2, 2019 19:45:02 GMT
Touche. ‘Solve’ is a bit much... Damnit, weren’t those guns 4” AOEs in MK2? That’s what they were in my head. I’ll take a sanity pill now and stop looking for special snowflakes. Except...maybe we should all be reaching for the Kossites? 🤔 armchairwarrior, stop it! Reach for Press Gangers before Kossites if you want decent Ambush and Tough
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Post by auraco on Jul 3, 2019 3:02:19 GMT
Touche. ‘Solve’ is a bit much... Damnit, weren’t those guns 4” AOEs in MK2? That’s what they were in my head. I’ll take a sanity pill now and stop looking for special snowflakes. Except...maybe we should all be reaching for the Kossites? 🤔 armchairwarrior, stop it! Reach for Press Gangers before Kossites if you want decent Ambush and Tough And RFP and self recursion...
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Post by borderprince on Jul 3, 2019 5:11:17 GMT
So as I think about OW2's gun only the Derp Turtle (and amazingly the 2 Man of War Seige Chariots) lack the Construct tag and thus are living (and thus vulnerable to the blind effect). VERY good to know ;-)
And the Throne of Everblight?
Also, unusually for Legion, doesn't have Eyeless Sight. Particularly weird as the model doesn't have any eyes, but can apparently still see. It's sight is eyeless, but not Eyeless Sight.
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Post by auraco on Jul 3, 2019 9:52:12 GMT
Well the witch on top who seems to be in control of the thing just looks like a regular blighted elf, maybe blinding her is enough to screw over the entire thing.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Jul 3, 2019 11:31:24 GMT
And RFP and self recursion... OK, random questions... First - the Press Gangers recursion mechanic is to “add one grunt.” In a tournament game, what happens if you run out of assembled models to put down on the table? I don’t think you’re allowed to proxy... I own one max unit, so am I really constrained to fielding a min unit (or buying another unit...not gonna happen). I have this same question for Alexia 2. I own 3 thrall warriors. What happens if I want to put down a fourth? Denied? Second - is First Mate Hawk worth your merc slot if you were to tuck in, say, a min unit of Press Ganger Sea Dogs? MAT 6, POW 9 ambushing Weaponmasters doesn’t sound so bad.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jul 3, 2019 11:53:12 GMT
And RFP and self recursion... OK, random questions... First - the Press Gangers recursion mechanic is to “add one grunt.” In a tournament game, what happens if you run out of assembled models to put down on the table? I don’t think you’re allowed to proxy... I own one max unit, so am I really constrained to fielding a min unit (or buying another unit...not gonna happen). I have this same question for Alexia 2. I own 3 thrall warriors. What happens if I want to put down a fourth? Denied? You answered your own question by stating that proxies are not allowed. Some people might allow them, but they are in their right to say no. If you would actually convert something, then it should be allowed without having to guy additional models.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Jul 3, 2019 12:51:09 GMT
So min unit it is.
Re Alexia, how many Thrall solos do you find you need? Do you think Risen conversions would be OK? I have an abundance of Risen.
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Post by auraco on Jul 3, 2019 14:56:16 GMT
Most thralls I've had on the table with Alexia2 is 4, I think 6 is more than enough, if you have more than that on the table you're probably winning anyway so just go for some hellfire action, putting thralls on the table is not the only thing Alexia2 does.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jul 4, 2019 6:49:06 GMT
Re Alexia, how many Thrall solos do you find you need? Do you think Risen conversions would be OK? I have an abundance of Risen. I've never played her, but I agree with auraco that I don't ever see a time where you would need more than 6. I think Risen conversions could work, but the Thrall Warriors have a big sword and are more heavily armored, so you would have to make sure that is clear in your conversion.
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