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Post by Armchair Warrior on Jun 27, 2019 0:54:39 GMT
PSA link: files.privateerpress.com/op/Steamroller%20Rules%202019.pdfI’ve now had a chance to play 2 of the new scenarios, and looking at them as a bunch I think that you really need to build lists anticipating the scenarios, both offensively (what solos did you bring to score those flags, did you bring at least 2 jacks even if you packed a colossal), and defensively (what did you bring to shoot annoying solos camping the corner of zones). I’ve been playing Karchev in jack heavy (meaning 8 jacks) Jaws, and I honestly think this leaves you at an unnecessary disadvantage. The new theme format helps.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 27, 2019 12:49:53 GMT
Is that King of the Hill? Two rectangles 24" apart is super tricky for a low focus caster. You almost just have to give up on scoring one of the zones, just sending some mooks to contest. Absolute pain of a scenario.
I guess Anarchy is difficult too; hard to contest both with just jacks.
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Post by jonnyboy on Jun 27, 2019 12:51:40 GMT
I think King Of The Hill is going to be huge for ambushers. Otherwise Solos/units are going to contest for days.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 27, 2019 13:31:14 GMT
I think King Of The Hill is going to be huge for ambushers. Otherwise Solos/units are going to contest for days. The issue we have is that we can only currently get ambushers in one out-of-favour theme! Someone asked about Jaws on the FB thread and Jeff Olsen replied that he felt it had been suitably improved/compensated/adjusted. It wasn't clear if he meant that changes had been made to the theme, or if he was just referring to the Requisition changes. By Occam's Razor I would tend to assume that no extra changes were made, which would leave Jaws in a pretty rubbish spot as anything other than "I wanted to run Kayazy, the theme"
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Post by auraco on Jun 27, 2019 14:25:12 GMT
I think King Of The Hill is going to be huge for ambushers. Otherwise Solos/units are going to contest for days. The issue we have is that we can only currently get ambushers in one out-of-favour theme! Someone asked about Jaws on the FB thread and Jeff Olsen replied that he felt it had been suitably improved/compensated/adjusted. It wasn't clear if he meant that changes had been made to the theme, or if he was just referring to the Requisition changes. By Occam's Razor I would tend to assume that no extra changes were made, which would leave Jaws in a pretty rubbish spot as anything other than "I wanted to run Kayazy, the theme" Eh boi, if it stays as it is other than the requisition change it's going to be super disapointing. Speaking or requisition, I could easily see this theme allowing units of eliminators as requisition, meaning the forge seer is probably just going to end up a paperweight even though it can be taken in 3 out of our theme, which is a lot, not that people take him as anything else than a free option in jaws, because jaws doesn't have many good free option...
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 27, 2019 14:37:38 GMT
I might stick the Forge Seer - Destroyer module in a couple of lists; I like it as a zone-scoring gun platform. And if I'm running jack-Wolves, then I'd probably have one so the Kolduns can be a bit more flexible. But yeah, a 4 pt empower bot is not great value on its own
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Jun 27, 2019 14:45:11 GMT
There is also Hutchuck, so we have ambushers in all bar one theme and can prevent ambushing in a theme.
Cheers, Dave
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jun 27, 2019 19:55:23 GMT
PSA link: files.privateerpress.com/op/Steamroller%20Rules%202019.pdfI’ve now had a chance to play 2 of the new scenarios, and looking at them as a bunch I think that you really need to build lists anticipating the scenarios, both offensively (what solos did you bring to score those flags, did you bring at least 2 jacks even if you packed a colossal), and defensively (what did you bring to shoot annoying solos camping the corner of zones). I’ve been playing Karchev in jack heavy (meaning 8 jacks) Jaws, and I honestly think this leaves you at an unnecessary disadvantage. The new theme format helps. Khador doesn't have the oppressive type of lists that can play into 70% of the Meta while still disregarding Scenario. We haven't been able to play this game without a Scenario plan for a while now. This new packet should make it that much more obvious.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jun 27, 2019 20:19:59 GMT
There is also Hutchuck, so we have ambushers in all bar one theme and can prevent ambushing in a theme. Cheers, Dave We have access to Press Gangers across the board, which I believe are superior to Kossites just because of Tough and access to Hawke
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Jun 28, 2019 0:09:35 GMT
Outside of Wolves, do you think the new scenario packet locks in you to taking either the Adjunct or a Forge Seer with a Destroyer? I feel like if you don’t have ranged magical weapons then you’re inviting a feralgeist or gremlin swarm to toe the corner of a zone in King of the Hill for the whole game. This was already a problem in some scenarios, but your caster could potentially deal with it. Now? It will be too far out of reach for your caster to get to,
My love for Wolves is mega.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jun 28, 2019 2:26:25 GMT
I think Adjunct should definitely be a serious consideration. Magic Weapon that ignores stealth will help keep players honest, and it works on anything.
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Post by auraco on Jun 28, 2019 2:59:59 GMT
The adjunct is already pretty much auto include, and I prefer him as an option to a forge seer marshalled jack if only because of the flexibility that comes from guidance. It's also less telegraphed and eyeless sight is better than no eyeless sight.
The forge seer is in a seriously bad place at the moment, like needs a rework bad place, it's pretty telling when it's a model that can be taken in three theme and it barely gets taken in one of these.
The new scenario packet make me look more at the battle engines, it's really hard for our caster to cover enough ground for a scenario like king of the hill, so having a battle engine score on the other side of the map can really help. I really prefer that option over a marshalled jack.
The gun carriage is very good and it will be an option in warrior of the old faith, it also doesn't require much support to work. The Chariots in that theme I'm less sure about, because I think the gun carriage is way better than either of them, but it still leaves us with a couple of options.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jun 28, 2019 5:19:49 GMT
Sigh. The Forgeseer is arguably one of the best jack marshals in the game: his drive provides two benefits, and he brings Empower. And yet...
Is it just that jack marshals in general are very rarely worth taking, or is that Khador does not have the kind of jacks that are worth marshalling?
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Post by borderprince on Jun 28, 2019 6:04:54 GMT
Sigh. The Forgeseer is arguably one of the best jack marshals in the game: his drive provides two benefits, and he brings Empower. And yet... Is it just that jack marshals in general are very rarely worth taking, or is that Khador does not have the kind of jacks that are worth marshalling? A bit of both I think. Marshals need to bring a lot to the table if you're going to run them with expensive jacks. Lights are often a better return (and the marshal benefits are often proportionately greater on a model with lower base stats). Unless you have free charge too, marshalling tends to be better on shooting jacks. A Forgeseer with a shooty light could be amazing, but Khador doesn't have lights, so that's not really worth thinking about. You can get a marshalled jack to do really well, but it takes lots of moving parts.
The new scenario packet make me look more at the battle engines, it's really hard for our caster to cover enough ground for a scenario like king of the hill, so having a battle engine score on the other side of the map can really help. I really prefer that option over a marshalled jack. What about Malakov1? Same cost as a Forgeseer, but gives a nice buff to his jack and is entirely independent of the caster. Also has some survival kit built in if you give him a group of meatshields/flunkies (sorry, skilled mechaniks). Not saying the BE is a bad choice, but Malakov1 is in two of our themes too. Technically he also has a ranged magical attack in Razorwind. Has anyone ever actually used that on a FOC4 model?
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jun 28, 2019 8:44:02 GMT
I was just thinking the other day that a lot of battle engines are at the point where they actually undermine Warmahordes' unique selling point to some extent. Why bring a warjack that can get crippled or disrupted and needs lots of resources to do it's job, when instead you can bring a battle engine that's just as tough or even tougher, doesn't get crippled, can't be thrown, is often faster, and has a high output that usually requires no resource investment, and is better at body-blocking to boot?
Eh, I guess I'm way off topic at this point. Sorry.
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