Steamroller 2017 is now live at CID

All the objectives seem pretty good except for the feora2 objective. That one seems a bit bonkers. The objectives all have 1 special rule each now.

Especially when you consider what it does on colossals and gargantuans. Hurricane putting out four shots two of which are AOE4 all lighting stuff on fire. Judicator rockets, mammoth artillery, hydra sprays, conquest barrage ect...

It would quickly become the default objective choice if its left at is.

Personally, I am liking the things under testing. I've been a longtime critic of the Steamroller format because it effectively sidelines better than half the casters due to the logistics of the center slamdance. Only losing to your opponent if he/she gets six points ahead give a lot of wiggle room and a new lease on life for hit and run casters. The new terrain rules would mitigate some of the balance issues a gunline might gain in the change.

About the only thing I would rather see is forget Killbox and simply go to a 3'x3' table in the first place. Deployment would only consist of your Advanced Deploy. Everything else would move on to the table on your turn. The Killbox effectively makes it basically a 3'x3' table anyway to keep the games going. The only reason for that extra foot on the first turn is to avoid someone blasting the deployment zone. Having to move on largely mitigates that just fine. It means not having to keep up with the Killbox thing throughout the game and you still keep things moving. Most importantly, the most common table size available (fold up card table or otherwise) has a 3'x3' or ?'x3' size. Why not just make it easier for people to get tables to play. I'm just saying boo.

I'm not part of the CID. Can we get more details on the rules about measuring devices?

Thanks. The current wording is a little interesting. Sounds like you can use as many measuring tools as you want, as long as you don't take your hands off them. I've never seen measuring aids clutter up a table that bad. Is it really an issue that needed to be addressed?

I think that sounds like a happy medium, you can use as many tools as you want in making one measurement, but you can't, for example, have tools measuring the movement of your whole 13-man WGI squad on the table.

Of course, in the above case, you could do the measurement for each in turn, with the single set of tools, or just measure one, move it, measure one, move the next. I think the latter is what PP want people to do, and discourage the former.

New post clarifying PP's view, and amending the measurement rules:

Full pre-measurement has existed for less than a full year in W/H. It was introduced to allow players to make clean measurements before committing to an action, and to reduce player disputes regarding ranges. Pre-measurement was not meant for the table to become cluttered with dozens of bases, widgets, markers and other items as a player pre-planned their entire turn as their opponent watched, then went through the motions again to actually commit to any actions. We have, in the year since the introduction of pre-measurement, watched the types of games where proxy bases are carefully placed and moved around the board without anything happening, the players agreeing to each minute measurement, and then again as some of those measurements actually happened and others didn't (due to die rolls or other game state alterations). This was not our intent with pre-measurement.

This marker overload is an emergent behavior that is generally undesirable for most players to be on the receiving end of, and can sometimes backfire as it becomes confusing when overdone. In the past we have not had to have guidelines and rules on the use of these types of markers, but we do now. We're looking to end this style of play before it gets further out of hand.

Therefore, we are looking to codify our intent of the use of pre-measurement within Steamroller (one of the most common ways WM/H is played). Our goal is to clearly define the difference between a game token (representing a spell or effect), a proxy base (for a model that cannot physically remain on the table), a table marker (a player tool to mark a position on the board), and a measuring device (a measurement stick used to determine a range).

The new rules allow for multiple devices to be used to measure a single range, or simultaneous ranges for instances such as advancing and avoiding an enemy model's melee range. Table markers have been further defined to avoid confusion. We have now listed exactly what can be used as a table marker to avoid creative loophole exploits. We look forward to hearing your thoughts on these new rules consideration, and your feedback on the clarity of the rules as written.

(rules)

Tokens and templates represent in-game effects such as focus, fury, spells, AOE effects, etc., and should be placed next to the affected model(s) or on the appropriate area of the board. Players can only have tokens or templates on the table that represent an in-game effect that is currently in play. All other tokens and templates should be removed from the table or stored on an area of the table that does not interfere with gameplay.

Proxy bases represent models that cannot physically fit into a space on the table due to terrain features or other models. Proxy bases must indicate the facing of the models they represent. They must also be labeled or marked to indicate which model they represent. As soon as it is possible to replace a proxy base with the actual model it represents, a player must do so.

A table marker is an item from the following list used by a player to mark a specific place on the board that does not represent an in-game effect or a model’s current placement. For example, a player might use a table marker to indicate the threat range of an enemy warjack, or to determine if a friendly model will fit into a specific space after charging an enemy. A player cannot leave more than one table marker on the table at any time. The following items are allowed as table markers: 30mm base, 40mm base, 50mm base, 120 mm base, 3” AOE, 4” AOE, 5” AOE, wall template.

A measuring device is an item used to measure a specific range, such as a tape measure, melee gauge, blast gauge, or War Stick. A player can use any number of these items to make a measurement, such as the range of an attack or a model’s advance. The player can place these devices on the table while making the measurement, but cannot leave measuring devices on the table when not making the measurement. Some situations will arise where a player will need to make simultaneous measurements, such as making an advance and determining if their model will suffer a free strike. During these situations it is acceptable for a player to use multiple measuring devices independently of each other, as long as the device is not left on the table after the simultaneous measurements are complete.

(Example: A player wants to determine the best position for his model to make a ranged spray attack. He measures the distance the model could advance, and places an empty base as a table marker. Then, he uses his spray template to measure from the marker to determine various attack opportunities. This is legal. The player could not, however, leave on the table a measurement device indicating the potential advance of the model, the table marker indicating the model’s potential location, and a spray template indicating the potential attack. That would result in two measuring devices being used to measure two different non-simultaneous distances at the same time, and would be illegal. The player could however, measure out a distance to place their table marker indicating where the model might advance to, then measure potential spray attacks separately from the table marker without leaving multiple measuring devices or markers on the table.)

(Example: A player wants to precisely determine the distance of a model’s run. They use a 10” measuring gauge, a 4” measuring gauge, and a 2” measuring gauge to ensure the model moves exactly 16”. After moving the model they remove all of the gauges from the table. This is legal.)

(Example: A player wants to measure a model’s advance, while avoiding several enemy free strikes. They can use any number of measuring devices, including leaving them on the table, to measure the model’s advance. Additionally, they could also use multiple melee gauges to measure the melee range of the enemy models their model will advance near. The player must pick up these measuring devices after the measurements involved in the advance are complete.)



The rest of the thread is almost guaranteed to be worthy of popcorn, I'm going in.