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Post by beardmonk on Mar 7, 2019 9:10:24 GMT
Re Hearts of Darkness. Does this mean that in order to play Infernals to their full extent, i.e. both themes, you also need to buy a fairly significant Khador/Cygnar/CG army? When they said that infernals had sleeper agents I assumed that there would be a number of individual casters or solos that could be played cross faction. Not entire factions playing in Infernals.
Yes. Taken in extreme you need full cygnar, khador and CG army. Of course with several of each units. :-)
The only good thing i see, is that all those cygnar/khador second hand armies with 70 % off on internet, may sell at last.
This of course with the caveat that it gets through CID... So don't buy yet !
Ha! I wasn't planning on getting into Infernals so my wallet is safe. I am a little annoyed that many of PP's recent themes have been "now take all of minions in your army but with your factions casters". I'm not sure why Hearts of Darkness is any different, but it just seems more..... blatant? Maybe its because its one of only two themes in the faction where Skorne, Circle etc have 4+ themes outside of the "take all the minions" theme. I will be quite sad if Hearts Of Darkness gets through CiD in its current form, or at all. I'm disappointed that it even made it to public beta testing. |
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Post by feketelovag on Mar 7, 2019 9:53:50 GMT
Personally Im quite disappointed with the Hearts of Darkness theme force because I was looking forward to playing Infernals and NOT Khador/Cygnar/CG + some minor Infernals as "mercs". Also, as people said the theme has tons of places where it can be broken. Ive already seen some lists with the ideas behind them and cringe at the thought and as some have pointed out these lists will just take time away from actually testing Infernals. Which, given the odds that the theme will be scrapped is probably a bad thing. Though what I find to be an even worse thing and what I think people are overlooking is that effectively Infernals will have only ONE theme plus be a side show in another faction's list (if it isnt scrapped altogether). When instead we could have been testing another Infernals theme all along instead...
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Mar 7, 2019 10:17:11 GMT
Can someone list these super broken combos that people are talking about?
I've not gone too far into it on the Khador side yet. There's some neat things, but I haven't found anything totally nuts once I've started actually making lists.
And you definitely don't need full factions etc to play Infernals. You need a caster, a couple jacks and maybe some solos and units from one faction. If you want heaps and heaps of options then yeah, you need a bigger collection. Same as any other faction.
Cheers,
Dave
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Post by mcdermott on Mar 7, 2019 10:37:20 GMT
Can someone list these super broken combos that people are talking about? I've not gone too far into it on the Khador side yet. There's some neat things, but I haven't found anything totally nuts once I've started actually making lists. And you definitely don't need full factions etc to play Infernals. You need a caster, a couple jacks and maybe some solos and units from one faction. If you want heaps and heaps of options then yeah, you need a bigger collection. Same as any other faction. Cheers, Dave Its way too early for anyone to have actually found anything provably abusive, its just the usual freaking out over new thing without any real testing to see if theres counterplay or if it works. |
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Post by feketelovag on Mar 7, 2019 10:41:06 GMT
How about giving Butcher3 back his movement shenanigans with Mordekai? There was a reason he lost it... that didnt take too long now did it?
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Mar 7, 2019 10:48:18 GMT
Its way too early for anyone to have actually found anything provably abusive, its just the usual freaking out over new thing without any real testing to see if theres counterplay or if it works. Yeah I kind of figured it was mostly folk overreacting. I'm sure there's some strong, possibly broken, stuff out there but I'd like to actually see some examples. I'm yet to see a list that's totally OTT. Cheers, Dave |
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Mar 7, 2019 10:51:15 GMT
How about giving Butcher3 back his movement shenanigans with Mordekai? There was a reason he lost it... that didnt take too long now did it? I assume you mean Shadow? So giving Butcher and not his dogs a 5" advance. Yep that's pretty strong. Have you written any lists to see how the whole thing looks? I wouldn't say it's so obviously broken that it needs immediate fixing, but should be tested for sure. Could simply change Shadow to read "non-warcaster warrior model" instead of having people complain that the whole theme is busted? Cheers, Dave |
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Post by gedditoffme on Mar 7, 2019 11:06:36 GMT
I think the most offensive thing is that the theme is straight better than Cygnar or khador themes. So you can take 2 almost unrestricted Cygnar lists and call it an infernal pairing without an infernal model in sight.
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Mar 7, 2019 11:17:21 GMT
From a Khador perspective, the theme itself has worse benefits than every Khador them except Jaws of the Wolf. Even then, if you try to play a Jaws list in Hearts of Darkness you'll end up with maybe 6-12pts of free models compared to the 14-18pts Jaws generally has. It also has a very limited selection of models when you consider Khador lists have access to Merc options.
Write some lists and show where it is better than equivalent Khador lists. Currently I'm writing lists and they're different, not strictly better. I can't really comment on the other factions because I don't know them in depth enough.
Cheers,
Dave
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Post by feketelovag on Mar 7, 2019 11:53:39 GMT
Ya, was talking about Shadow and I dont actually play Khador so havent made any lists though have seen a couple. Mainly just the regular old stuff with just a couple Infernal solos to ramp things up. Another lol that I just saw was Valin with Old Witch2 which combined gives -10 range to shooting. Not saying that these are game breaking and obviously need to be tested but really all this testing is going to take time away from actually testing the new faction (Infernals). Plus it hasnt even been 24 hrs yet and interactions like this are being found so whats going to be found if people really have time to think things through? Personally I just dont think a theme like this should have been lumped together in a CID for a brand new faction, even if I personally dont like the idea of this theme.
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310 
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Post by crow on Mar 7, 2019 12:27:19 GMT
Don't own Cygnar, but has anyone tried Haley 3 cloud wall with storm lances? Then adding say either a Storm wall or Hurricane behind that with a couple of Fireflys. Solos (taken for free of course) I'm sure you could get stuff to ramp her up to 11 if needed. But a possible start on a broken list.
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Post by tiberius on Mar 7, 2019 12:51:05 GMT
Every time there's a complaint about themes, there's some self-appointed champion defending how they're really a great thing because they deal with faction bloat and restrict interactions and make testing easier and blah blah blah. And now this theme comes along and basically shits directly into their mouths. I love it. Posting an image for a few hundred bytes of text is an abomination. Also, get off my lawn. Hearts of Darkness Army Composition When making an army using this theme force, select a Faction: Crucible Guard, Cygnar, or Khador. An army made using this theme force can include only the following models: • Non-Partisan warcasters of the selected Faction • Non-character warjacks of the selected Faction • Lesser and light horrors that are part of Great Princess Regna Gravnoy’s battlegroup. • Up to two non-Partisan units of the selected Faction • Up to three non-Partisan solos of the selected Faction • Infernal units • Infernal solos • Infernal structures Special Rules • This army can include lesser and light horrors that are part of Great Princess Regna Gravnoy’s battlegroup. • This army can also include one Mercenary solo and one Mercenary unit that will work for the Infernals. These models/units can be included even if they have the Partisan [Infernals] special rule. Mercenary units in this army can include attachments. • For every full 20 points of horrors, units, solos, and structures in this army, you can add one command attachment or small- or medium-based solo to the army free of cost. Free command attachments and solos do not count toward the total point value of units and solos in the army when calculating this bonus. • All models in this army are considered to be Infernal models. • Friendly models/units can begin the game affected by the upkeep spells of warcasters in this army. These spells and their targets must be declared before either player deploys their models. Warcasters in this army do not have to pay focus to upkeep their spells during your first turn of the game. Am I reading this correctly that you will have a warlock and a Warcaster in the same list? How else will you run lesser and light warbeasts if you don't have the warlock in there too? |
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cain
Junior Strategist
Posts: 243
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Post by cain on Mar 7, 2019 12:51:47 GMT
Don't own Cygnar, but has anyone tried Haley 3 cloud wall with storm lances? Then adding say either a Storm wall or Hurricane behind that with a couple of Fireflys. Solos (taken for free of course) I'm sure you could get stuff to ramp her up to 11 if needed. But a possible start on a broken list.
I'm unshure if the collossal is a good idea, but haley3 with stormlances, smokewall, the infernal heavy infantry and infernal solos would be a good start !
I dont know yet how broken cygnar is in infernal, but its shure frustrating that you can run a more flexibel cygnar army composition in infernal (and with free solos) than in cygnar itself.Its like a irregulars army for cygnar (and the other 2).
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cain
Junior Strategist
Posts: 243
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Post by cain on Mar 7, 2019 13:01:19 GMT
You cant take a master (warlock.) You must take a warcaster from the 3 named factions.
But you can take the princess, she is a infernal solo like a warlock junior/lesser warlock. She can have a battlegroup of beasts.
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Post by shadowsword751 on Mar 7, 2019 13:28:11 GMT
Those of us behind firewalls and with limited internet access SALUTE YOU!
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