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Post by sand20go on Feb 22, 2019 19:01:53 GMT
Click bait subject but I am in LOVE with this list. It was never CID'ed but should have been. It is going to be glorious (see below). So playing this weekend ;-) conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-0KhDkTkTno8h8h6i8Inf89nf89nf89ngnnnnKhador Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Wolves of Winter [Strakhov 2] Assault Kommander Strakhov [+22] - Marauder [11] - Marauder [11] Fenris [8] Koldun Lord [0(4)] Koldun Lord [4] Alexia Ciannor & the Risen [10] - Koldun Kapitan Valachev [4] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Greylord Outriders (min) [10] Greylord Ternion [0(7)] Greylord Ternion [0(7)]
Now I know what you are saying sports fans. Strakov2. Dude - he is going to HATE models that have spell ward. What are you thinking. Ahh....but you would be missing the Sheer WONDERS of this list and the creative juices that flowed into it rather than in my friday work tasks.....
1) Quicken goes on the ponies at the start of the game and they are WAY on one flank. Running 22 inches top of 1 to go threaten the backfield feels...well...good. And they are DEF 17 against Shooting. Good luck with that.
2) Tac Supremacy goes on the Strakov himself. Now you can scoot, shot, repo AND go stealth. That is some damm good sauce on a guy with a boostable Armor piercing shot and with 2 guys that can spread the same kind of love.
3) Sadly I believe the rules preclude Alexia starting deployment out of formation with her unit (but I need to go read the dense text of the poorly organized rule book to see if this addressed). No matter. You to 6 focus and last stand costs 2. Find me a risen to cast it on. NOTHING on her card says that she can't run out of formation and still collect corpses and add to risen. She just can't get an order from Valachev for a turn or 2. Shucks. She is going to be there to go ruin a Vulcan with Risen so I can laugh at Juris as I do it.
4) Bottom of 1; top of 2 you are Ready; feat charge. Cause this is the BEST part (no seriously, it is). Ternions walk up; cloud 6 doomies. The doomies form an 18 inch cloud wall for their buddies and the Mauraders. They are Def 15; ARM 17; with FEIGN F'ING DEATH!!! So now _IF_ you spend resources to get through the def (oh please let there be a good hill; please!!!) and the doomies tough it is too bad for you. Fenris is right there to let them Rise up (que Hamilton song) and go beat you with some weaponmaster swords.
I LOVE THIS LIST. I thought that Zerkova had my heart but like a two timers another has caught my eye.
Edit - opps. Forgot he doesn't have Tac Supremacy. No matter IR on the other Maurader after you hot swap quicken after the ponies run their 22 inches
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Post by hocestbellum on Feb 22, 2019 19:38:13 GMT
Okay, the next thread down is a Wolves list discussion thread; did this need to be made?
Regarding point 3: To save you some time, it's on pg26: 'Deploy units so that all troopers are in formation'. The second part is correct, but bear in mind that Alexia would have to advance or run directly towards Valachev and then forfeit her combat action, so she would presumably end up stuck at the back of the unit.
As to the list itself; I feel like you've got really overexcited by this given that your opponent is the faction with loads of tough-b-gone and sprays for days.
Also, the list feels really light on models; only 18 very squishy threats with a gameplan to sacrifice 6 of them for the greater good.
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Post by auraco on Feb 22, 2019 19:43:10 GMT
Strakhov2 doesn't have Tactical Supremacy...
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Post by sand20go on Feb 22, 2019 19:47:06 GMT
Okay, the next thread down is a Wolves list discussion thread; did this need to be made? Regarding point 3: To save you some time, it's on pg26: 'Deploy units so that all troopers are in formation'. The second part is correct, but bear in mind that Alexia would have to advance or run directly towards Valachev and then forfeit her combat action, so she would presumably end up stuck at the back of the unit. As to the list itself; I feel like you've got really overexcited by this given that your opponent is the faction with loads of tough-b-gone and sprays for days. Also, the list feels really light on models; only 18 very squishy threats with a gameplan to sacrifice 6 of them for the greater good. Are they actually being sacrificed? Absent aiming the stupid rockets need 9s to hit the clouded doomies and the blast, if caught is at Dice minus 8. The Sprays require a target so absent a trancer running to be that thing (which he would have to do PRIOR to knowing which tough/Feign death is going to be the important one. Against huge bases that will murderate our jacks ANYWAY in response last stand Mauraders seem legit (if slooooow).
Your criticism could hold true for any sub 4 unit doomie list. And here is the interesting observation......The ONLY combo in the faction that actually gets much (any?) use of of Feign death part of his feat is this one. Everything else is no knock down and so while you are getting the armor bonus with things like Dragons (ARM 24 under feat and minifeat) or Shocks (ARM 24) you lose out on no targeting.
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Post by sand20go on Feb 22, 2019 19:47:52 GMT
Strakhov2 doesn't have Tactical Supremacy... I know. See edit. I left the original rather than change and then edited. HE can make the second Maurader ARM 22 with IR on the approach.
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Post by hocestbellum on Feb 22, 2019 20:11:35 GMT
Okay, the next thread down is a Wolves list discussion thread; did this need to be made? Regarding point 3: To save you some time, it's on pg26: 'Deploy units so that all troopers are in formation'. The second part is correct, but bear in mind that Alexia would have to advance or run directly towards Valachev and then forfeit her combat action, so she would presumably end up stuck at the back of the unit. As to the list itself; I feel like you've got really overexcited by this given that your opponent is the faction with loads of tough-b-gone and sprays for days. Also, the list feels really light on models; only 18 very squishy threats with a gameplan to sacrifice 6 of them for the greater good. Are they actually being sacrificed? Absent aiming the stupid rockets need 9s to hit the clouded doomies and the blast, if caught is at Dice minus 8. The Sprays require a target so absent a trancer running to be that thing (which he would have to do PRIOR to knowing which tough/Feign death is going to be the important one. Against huge bases that will murderate our jacks ANYWAY in response last stand Mauraders seem legit (if slooooow).
Your criticism could hold true for any sub 4 unit doomie list. And here is the interesting observation......The ONLY combo in the faction that actually gets much (any?) use of of Feign death part of his feat is this one. Everything else is no knock down and so while you are getting the armor bonus with things like Dragons (ARM 24 under feat and minifeat) or Shocks (ARM 24) you lose out on no targeting.
Sticking models into the firing line to protect other models is pretty much the definition of a sacrifice, I would say! I certainly wouldn't feel safe knowing that my opponent only needed a 9 to breach my defences, and that at best I have a 33% chance of surviving a hit. Would you be better off using the Risen? Far more expendable, and you'd still have the 1-in-3 chance of keeping the cloud wall intact
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Post by jdeckert on Feb 22, 2019 21:29:06 GMT
"Your criticism could hold true for any sub 4 unit doomie list." Yes it could. Doom reavers are the real offensive workhorses available. Unless you're trying a dedicated anti-infantry list of some kind or a Zerkova2 all-in-on-assassination list, I think you want more doom reavers. Heck, even in those cases. The only other models you can bring with real hitting power are 'jacks, and if you want to run 'jack heavy there are better themes for it. Yes, the risen can hit, but PS 7 weaponmaster is still real bad for cracking ARM and CMA isn't going to help enough. And you have to do the gimmicky fudging-around-with-formation thing. I really think 4 units is the bare minimum you'll want in Wolves. The feat and cloud combo is interesting, so I hope you give it a shot and report back. Also, "if the doomies tough" would make me nervous. Only 1 out of 3 will.
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Post by sand20go on Feb 22, 2019 21:40:06 GMT
OK. so THE math (which probably suggests that Risen are not that good). To hit "benchmark" which is over 50% kill chance on a railless you need 15 charging Risen to get it done.
Flip side, if Alexia her self wants to do the deed she needs to spend 10 risen (for 5 buys and boosts) under last stand to hit a 77% chance of killing it.
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Post by sand20go on Feb 22, 2019 21:47:53 GMT
"Your criticism could hold true for any sub 4 unit doomie list." Yes it could. Doom reavers are the real offensive workhorses available. Unless you're trying a dedicated anti-infantry list of some kind or a Zerkova2 all-in-on-assassination list, I think you want more doom reavers. Heck, even in those cases. The only other models you can bring with real hitting power are 'jacks, and if you want to run 'jack heavy there are better themes for it. Yes, the risen can hit, but PS 7 weaponmaster is still real bad for cracking ARM and CMA isn't going to help enough. And you have to do the gimmicky fudging-around-with-formation thing. I really think 4 units is the bare minimum you'll want in Wolves. The feat and cloud combo is interesting, so I hope you give it a shot and report back. Also, "if the doomies tough" would make me nervous. Only 1 out of 3 will. And you could get 4 (with some double layered clouds) by dropping Alexia and adding a 4th. I think that also gets us a 3 unit of greylords.
conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-0KhDkTkTno8h8hnf89nf89nf89nfngnnnnnnKhador Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Wolves of Winter [Strakhov 2] Assault Kommander Strakhov [+22] - Marauder [11] - Marauder [11] Fenris [8] Koldun Lord [4] Koldun Lord [4] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Greylord Outriders (min) [10] Greylord Ternion [0(7)] Greylord Ternion [0(7)] Greylord Ternion [0(7)]
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Feb 22, 2019 22:18:30 GMT
OK. so THE math (which probably suggests that Risen are not that good). To hit "benchmark" which is over 50% kill chance on a railless you need 15 charging Risen to get it done. Flip side, if Alexia her self wants to do the deed she needs to spend 10 risen (for 5 buys and boosts) under last stand to hit a 77% chance of killing it. Risen are POW7. With Last Stand they roll 4 dice minus 12, so they average 2 or 3 damage each? Can you even fit 15 Risen (with half inch melee) onto a huge base? Seems like a terrible plan, really. Especially given the complicated interactions involved, and just how easily Risen die. Also, just pointing this out. Against Syvestro, your complicated "get Last Stand onto Risen" plan gets absolutely destroyed by a single cast of Purification.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Feb 22, 2019 22:46:25 GMT
"Your criticism could hold true for any sub 4 unit doomie list." Yes it could. Doom reavers are the real offensive workhorses available. Unless you're trying a dedicated anti-infantry list of some kind or a Zerkova2 all-in-on-assassination list, I think you want more doom reavers. Heck, even in those cases. The only other models you can bring with real hitting power are 'jacks, and if you want to run 'jack heavy there are better themes for it. Yes, the risen can hit, but PS 7 weaponmaster is still real bad for cracking ARM and CMA isn't going to help enough. And you have to do the gimmicky fudging-around-with-formation thing. I really think 4 units is the bare minimum you'll want in Wolves. The feat and cloud combo is interesting, so I hope you give it a shot and report back. Also, "if the doomies tough" would make me nervous. Only 1 out of 3 will. And you could get 4 (with some double layered clouds) by dropping Alexia and adding a 4th. I think that also gets us a 3 unit of greylords.
conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-0KhDkTkTno8h8hnf89nf89nf89nfngnnnnnnKhador Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Wolves of Winter [Strakhov 2] Assault Kommander Strakhov [+22] - Marauder [11] - Marauder [11] Fenris [8] Koldun Lord [4] Koldun Lord [4] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Greylord Outriders (min) [10] Greylord Ternion [0(7)] Greylord Ternion [0(7)] Greylord Ternion [0(7)] I like this list a lot more than the one with Alexia, but then I ask even more, why are we playing Strakhov2 here rather than another caster?
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Post by jonnyboy on Feb 22, 2019 23:16:13 GMT
I'm with you, not sure arm 17 and feign death are enough value.
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Post by auraco on Feb 23, 2019 6:06:08 GMT
I'll be that guy, I think this list is a terrible and wouldn't waste my time on it if you aim for a competitive list.
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Feb 23, 2019 11:13:31 GMT
Yeah not a fan.
I have tried Strakhov2 in Wolves running steelheads with Nick post CiD, which was fairly decent. Need to try again now the CiD rules are out.
I think you want Ruin for an ARM22, sacred ward, push immune model to start for sure.
Cheers, Dave
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Feb 23, 2019 12:08:23 GMT
Sand, I hate to pile on. But this just doesn’t seem that good. Is it cool jank? Sure. It it as good as a half a dozen other things you could be doing with doomreavers and Alexia 1? Sadly, no. (Now if Strakhov could Last Stand the doomreavers we could talk).
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