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Post by vorage on Dec 4, 2018 7:51:10 GMT
Hello brother Menith !
Any Idea to counter Boros? Specially Wurmwood ?
My pairing is HR judicator in EI and Harbi in FM.
I suppose that feat+rapid growth can easly block judicator los and give to Wurmwood a great alpha.
About Harbi, hellmouth, bloodtrackers, lord of the feast will crush infantry.
Did anyone already try this match-up ?
Does sevi2 could be a solution?
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moquan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 193
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Post by moquan on Dec 4, 2018 11:42:55 GMT
Early Mark3 it was Amon, just trample into the forest, buy attacks and kill their flimsy heavies.Now, counters will be determined by the list wurmwood plays. Considering your pairing, screen the Judicator and feat back for a counter-attack which should kill a lot of their stuff. RFP is an issue though. As for Harby, awe is very nice to have and your martyrable solo's will hit precise and hard enough. Use your feat to counter feat. Pow 14 kills aspects from lights or wolf heavies. So it depends on what your opponent is bringing. But with your pairing I would drop Harby. Following  |
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Post by macdaddy on Dec 4, 2018 12:27:12 GMT
Amon and Sevvy2 I will elaborate when I have more time.
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Post by paradox on Dec 4, 2018 13:49:39 GMT
As a Wurmwood fan, I find there are 3 key strengths:
1. The feat to deliver its alpha.
2. Spell offense to debuff, control, and attrition.
3. Soul collection to enable.
Menoth is pretty weak vs terrain effects like a feat forest. We dont have alot that ignores forests or LoS. So expect that youre likely to get slowed or “time-walked” by the feat. Fortunately, Menoth has pretty durable pieces that can take an alpha. Its good to have a plan to contest scenario and get up the board quickly but defensively to get that feat out of the way early. A bottom of 1 / top of 2 feat is typical, and what you want. Suffer through the forest while you can still absorb an alpha.
Spell immunity and spell hate, however, is something Menoth has alot of. Many options can be immune to spells, making it tougher for Wurmwood to flex its...er... roots. Its main spells are Curse of Shadows to debuff or bypass models or units, Stranglehold to lock down key jacks, and of course Hellmouth for attrition and control. Be aware of all possible uses of these spells and do your best to defend against them. Its also notable that Wurmwood likes to hang back and channel spells outside its feat turn. This is unsurprising because its a big tree and easy to hit. It can hide in or behind a Rapid Growth forest, but Menoth has dispel effects, like Purification, so if you have that tool you can force it to play back. But if you dont, thats OK. If you can present many spell immune models, or stop channeling, youre in a decent spot. Keep your jacks Warded and choir safe until youre ready to trade up.
*If you can catch out Cassius, great. It will greatly hamper Wurmwoods mobility. But the Wurmwood player knows this too, so probably wont give him away. Not worth overextending for, but if you can trap him all the better. This is why I usually play double shifting stones with Wurmwood anyway. If you can manage 1 stone from each unit AND Cassius, Wurmwood was probably losing that game anyway.
The last is something the Wurmwood player probably takes care of on their own. Like a cheap unit taken expressly to make souls. If you can RFP great, but dont sweat it too hard. Its better to try overwhleming casualties. But if you can bring Hand of Silence, and keep him safe, it will make life hard for Wurmwood. That said, hes just 1 cav solo, and its not impossible to keep soul sacrifices back where HoS will probably be needlessly exposed if he tried to shut it down. Just keep in mind that it can collect Menite souls too, and try not to needlessly give those away.
So based on what you mentioned, your Harbie FM is probably the better drop. She can take an alpha with Martyrdom and paladins. Champs are immune to push effects too. You have spell hate, and can deny some souls. Plus a Warded Harbie behind theme wall is pretty hard. You might also think about Kreoss2 if looking outside the pairing. Post-CID he has some tools that could help, shuts down channeling to force Wurmwood up, and his feat tends to make Circle nervous generally because many pieces live on DEF.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557 
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Post by Hashmal on Dec 4, 2018 14:51:55 GMT
Building on what 'dox said, the Wurmwood fight is tough but winnable. I try to go first when possible vs. Wurmwood to force the bottom-of-one Feat, then retreat to edge zones and stay highly relevant on scenario. If I give up points, I try to make it just one. If that's not possible, be aggressive with your own bottom of one move to force the Feat, and then lightly contest while removing whatever you can. You're going to get hit, but you have control over by what and where to a certain extent.
Harby FM would be my recommendation in general, unless he's using Wurmwood Bones. Harby's Martyrdom shuts down Bloodtrackers and they *hate* her Feat. Lord of the Feast is a right pain in the butt. Just deal with him when you can - a Champ held back to charge him when he engages is not a bad play and has okay odds to put him in the dirt even through a three camp on Corpses. Don't be afraid to use another Paladin to finish the job there.
HR EI has game because the Judicator is a very threatening piece that Wurmwood can't control because you're a cool dude and used Shielding all game. Here are a couple of cute tricks to keep in your back pocket.
-Wurmwood is going to Hellmouth your Errants to deny you souls and remove Feat targets. A good Purity turn will force him to Hellmouth one of his own dudes. Don't be afraid to Self Sacrifice freely, doubly so if you're taking Hand of Silence since you'll get souls from it. While you normally won't get souls, you save Errants to Feat back, which will make the tree grumpy.
-Bloodtrackers are a pain in the butt, but offer opportunities for HR to get glutted on souls. He has Ashes to Ashes, which is devastatingly effective against them. One cool trick to do is to Hand of Fate HR, then lob a few of those out when you get soul gorged. Alternatively, ping them off the back of an Errant or two's head, since you hit on 5s from the rear and don't have to worry about Stealth. People are very used to this play from Sevy1/2, but not so much from HR given his low FOC stat.
-Wurmwood can see through clouds, but the rest of his army can't. And Burning Ash is still a hit debuff for everything. You're not defenseless. Just watch for the assassination run, as it's a very real thing while Cassius is still alive.
To address your last question, Sevy2 is a fabulous answer to Wurmwood DH, and into infantry in general. He and Harby share Rebuke, a fabulous spell. He has Awareness, which will keep Wurmwood back and, depending on your build, force another list drop. He can clear light infantry with ease thanks to free Ashes to Ashes. And his Feat murders lower ARM non-Tough infantry and can scalpel out Nuala before she minifeats. Plus it gets around Tharn Rapid Healing. Tough stuffs it a bit, though. The only challenge is if Wurmwood is playing Bones, Sevy2 is pretty bad into that because of an overall lack of hitting power. His biggest weakness is that he can't take Sevy0.
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Post by macdaddy on Dec 4, 2018 16:27:22 GMT
Ok so I second just about everything Hashmal has said. I am actually currently trying to convince some folks how good Sevvy2 is into wurmwood. I play the following list: Sevvy2: FM -Judi -Blessing -Hierophant 2 Champs 2 Monks Villmon Vassal 3 Mechs 2Wraks Max Idrians with UA min chior I have had a blast with this list. It mulches all sorts of things and only really falls short into Beast/Jack spam. Sevvy himself brings some vital tools to this Match up: 1:Awareness: Him Blessing and the Judi can see through rapid growth and the feat, which basically means you get to shoot and spell sling anything off the table unless there is a house in the center of the board. It also forces wurmwood to camp and cast spiny growth limiting what he can do with fury. (minimum of 3 fury to cast spiny and camp 2) Keep in mind as well that hex blast dispells spiny growth 2: Rebuke: Telling a unit of ravagers they can't charge is golden. It gives them a pitiful 8" walking threat and takes away a lot of thier hitting power 3: oracular vision: You know what sucks, getting charged by ghetorix, you know what sucks for ghetorix, having the majority of his damage shunted away. This is a very important tool for keeping the Judi and blessing alive, never forget to leave them both with one focus (Thats why I have the vassal) 4:Feat: Nothing is sweeter than popping cassius with the feat, and ravager UA's, or maybe even some gallows groves. 5: Ashes to Ashes: Finally the spell that will turn entire units to...ashes. Into Blood trackers or wolf riders you will shred all the dudes. Its worth noting that the Judi should be kept back shooting as safe as possible. Use champs monks and idrians to keep the Judi and sevvy alive and killing things. I typically am able to milk 2-3 good turns of shooting from my screening and contesting pieces, which is all you really need to kill threats to the judi. As far as sevvy2 into wurmwood bones. I think the key is to never cast arcane ward and just grind attrition. The Judi can and should kill 2 heavies when he commits, and sevvy and Him should be able to blast the wyrds pretty handily as well while your pieces jam. Pow 12's are not exactly threatening when you have 3 mechanics, orcular and 2 shield guards. As far as amon. Mobility is a thing and can make wurmwoods feat pretty useless. Dervishes and crusaders should do a lot of work into a bones build. |
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Post by vorage on Dec 5, 2018 20:59:27 GMT
Thanks a lot for all the tips, very interesting.
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Post by greytemplar on Dec 5, 2018 21:52:59 GMT
I've had success with Vindictus into Wormwood. You can counter feat and simply deny him the alpha. True Path can also simply let your infantry walk into melee despite his feat if he leaves stuff in threat range, which if he is trying to buy an alpha strike he might, where they'll still do plenty of damage even without charging. Flamebringers in particular can be really nasty for him.
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Post by vorage on Dec 16, 2018 7:31:46 GMT
I've had success with Vindictus into Wormwood. You can counter feat and simply deny him the alpha. True Path can also simply let your infantry walk into melee despite his feat if he leaves stuff in threat range, which if he is trying to buy an alpha strike he might, where they'll still do plenty of damage even without charging. Flamebringers in particular can be really nasty for him. What is your list ? |
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