gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Apr 17, 2017 0:43:34 GMT
Title says it all. Doom2 is the standard PoD build with 3x slag trolls, whelps, and a northkin shaman (swap out 2 heavies for 3x slag against warjack bricks, solos/whelps to tailor the freebies).
This list trades speed for ranged presence, and a better ability to deal with higher def models. Planning on dojoing this week.
War Room Army
Trollblood - Grim1
Theme: The Power of Dhunia 3 / 3 Free Cards 74 / 75 Army 38 / 40 Specialist
Grim Angus - WB: +29 - Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0 - Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 19) - Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 - Troll Axer - PC: 10 - Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 - Dire Troll Blitzer - PC: 16 Janissa Stonetide - PC: 0 Troll Whelps - 5 Whelps: 0 Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9
SPECIALISTS
Earthborn Dire Troll - PC: 15 Earthborn Dire Troll - PC: 15 Northkin Shaman - PC: 4 Northkin Shaman - PC: 4
Edit: The Doom2 List for Reference
Trollbloods Army - 74 / 75 points
[Theme] The Power of Dhunia
(Doomshaper 2) Hoarluk Doomshaper, Rage of Dhunia [+27]
- Dire Troll Mauler [15]
- Earthborn Dire Troll [15]
- Mulg the Ancient [19]
- Slag Troll [10]
- Slag Troll [10]
- Slag Troll [10]
- Troll Axer [10]
Janissa Stonetide [0(4)]
Northkin Shaman [0(4)]
Troll Whelps [0(4)]
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9]
- Stone Scribe Elder [3]
SPECIALISTS
- Dire Troll Mauler [15]
- Earthborn Dire Troll [15]
- Whelps [4] - Northkin Shaman [4]
THEME: The Power of Dhunia
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GENERATED : 04/16/2017 17:15:29
BUILD ID : 2039.17-03-16
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Post by Trollock on Apr 17, 2017 13:16:52 GMT
Will be awesome to hear what you find interesting with Grim 1. I still havent found a place for him.
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A-Mo
Junior Strategist
Posts: 204
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Post by A-Mo on Apr 17, 2017 15:24:51 GMT
I still really want to give the Sea King a shot with Grim 1. Seems like he's got a lot to offer that the S.King would love. Bait the line for some added speed, deff debuffs a-plenty. Throw in a mauler to crank up the damage. Maaaaaybe the speed debuff part of the feat will help mitigate retaliation if you send him in for an Alpha. Maybe?
Why-oh-why couldn't he have been 40pts! Would have loved having that model as an ADR piece.
On your lists, I like the double earthborn sideboard. Keep us posted on the results.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Apr 17, 2017 16:23:04 GMT
Trollock the theory is that Grim has a lot of strengths that Doom2 doesn't - tools against Def, Incorporeal, Infantry, flanking solos. Would get played into Ghost Fleet, Zerkova Wall of Steel (countercharging at -3 speed is hilarious, so is catching her with Mantrap), potentially Hayley2 Storm Division and MAYBE Fyanna2 Oracles (needs testing to see whether it's better into her than Doom2). A-Mo the Sea King is something I wish cut muster, but unfortunately he's just too expensive compared to his 120mm counterparts. Dropping him to 40 (and maybe making him less potent to compensate) would be nice for ADR but even then Trolls struggle to swap out exactly 40 points from their mainboard anyways.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Apr 17, 2017 17:54:54 GMT
gdnerd Just to be sure we're on the same page, is this your Doomy 2 list? conflictchamber.com/#b71b_-0b539D5-055L5L5L0h7dfJ6R0l0mTrollbloods Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] The Power of Dhunia (Doomshaper 2) Hoarluk Doomshaper, Rage of Dhunia [+27] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Earthborn Dire Troll [15] - Mulg the Ancient [19] - Slag Troll [10] - Slag Troll [10] - Slag Troll [10] - Troll Axer [10] Janissa Stonetide [0(4)] Northkin Shaman [0(4)] Troll Whelps [0(4)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Stone Scribe Elder [3]
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Apr 17, 2017 18:05:12 GMT
Yes, with EBDT and Mauler in the sideboard, along with Whelps and another Shaman.
The Slags have INSANE damage output if you tool them up with Rage and Krielstone Strength Aura - they'll solo one round most heavy Warjacks in the game.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Apr 18, 2017 1:09:58 GMT
I was also looking at Grim 1, especially with 40 points of Specialists on tap. I've been saying that he would enter the meta as an answer to Fyanna, Kaya 3, and even Calandra and now Iron Fangs too. I realized that -3 SPD is a nightmare for counter charges only after Karchev got nerfed but now that I think about it, a big hit to SPD really hurts tactician as well. Also, while they only run 2 or 3 jacks in that list, they don't want to put quicken etc on them if they can help it. On that note, it's not just Zerkova. I've heard of builds with Irusk. Strakhov 2 has an impressive toolkit and is already gaining popularity. Actually, I should double check to see if we are talking about the same Khador list- Great Bears, Uhlans and 2x full boats of IFP? It's pretty nasty but doomy 2 can beat it IF he can trample in even one dire for assassination, depending on the situation. He has much better threat on that but Grim's feat can really seal the deal, especially if the Bombers can clear a landing zone. For what it's worth, this is what I decided I will do with Grim 1 at the next local Masters tourney on May 7th assuming that I'm able to go. I will pair this with your LVO list and the same Specialists for both. conflictchamber.com/#bn1b_-0b590r0rc60hbL7dfJfJ6R0l0mTrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Power of Dhunia !!! Your army must include a Steamroller objective. (Grim 1) Grim Angus [+29] - Dire Troll Bomber [19] - Dire Troll Bomber [19] - Mountain King [36] - Troll Axer [10] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(4)] Janissa Stonetide [0(4)] Northkin Shaman [0(4)] Northkin Shaman [4] Troll Whelps [4] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] Specialists Slag Troll x3 Storm Troll x1 Okay, I got some 'splainin to do. First of all, that basic shell of MK, Axer, 2x Bomber is proven. Trollock and I have both played it with Grissel 2 and that's what Chris Dancocks took to Adepticon. Changing the caster, of course, changes how it plays, but Grim Angus also has fantastic synergies with the Bomber and MK. It is just about the only thing that can make Return Fire actually scary, just for example. That's will catch people off guard, especially the part where he can choose to spray or punch. Even a lot of Trollblood players don't know that. Deafen is redundant in a good way. Since I'm gunning down DEF skews anyway 2x Shaman "main deck" sounds like a good idea to me. Also, Grim has True Sight and can see through the clouds. Those sprays on the feat turn can be golden, especially with Battle Wizard. Also, the sprays and their axes are magic, so they can hurt ghosts. And I need something that can take a flag in a pinch. They suit everything I need this list to do really well. The Runebearer is a bit of a placeholder. I thought it would help to have 3 or 4 points to swap out with the MK if I need the Slags and Storm. The Elder is necessary, not only for Incorporeal but also Fire, and you never know when +1 STR will make or break a kill. I might even see about putting a Sorcerer on the KSB for another little zap or I might cackle with glee if the Stone Scribes slaughter the Blackbanes on feat turn. "You gonna remove Incorporeal?" "Actually, yes." As for those Specialists, turns out Slag Trolls are actually really good! Thank Brandon Sherley for pounding that through our thick Trollkin skulls. While they would indeed be just fine for the main part of the list, I think that the MK is more generally useful for what I'm doing with this list. Like you said, nobody will drop jack spam into 3x Slag if they can help it, and with the same specialists for both lists, I know which list they will choose if one is jack spam. The Slags can be useful even if they never see the deployment zone. Why the Storm though? Okay, this will need testing, but I do think it is an excellent choice for Specialists. Some folks are using it as a counter to Cygnar, though I must admit I'm not sure exactly how. It's just that when they told me that I started mulling it over and, ironically, I think it is also good against other Trollblood players. A lot of Skorne too, for pretty much the same reasons, and I expect to see both Trolls and Skorne at that tourney. I should see what Makeda is doing and get in a practice game or two. Call it a hunch. It's just that it's easy to get out-threated by those lists and the Storm can maybe clog up a charge lane (even on my feat turn, just in case) or force them to slam when they'd rather charge or keep two heavies busy for one turn, etc. Also, those leaps can maybe pick off a couple Paingivers or even a Krielstone. Also, I need some way to get a 19-point module out of the specialists in case there's a time when I need the Storm or a Slag but I'd rather take a Bomber out than the MK but I can always take the Axer out if the table allows.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Apr 18, 2017 1:27:00 GMT
I like this list. I've been theorycrafting off-forum with friends and came up with a similar list - less solos and only one bomber but I squeezed in another heavy.
If I may ask, why do you think Kaya3 is going to see play? I still maintain she's not good enough to see any real play over the current top roster of Circle.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Apr 18, 2017 1:31:12 GMT
There's a really interesting dynamic to Grim 1's feat that I've always liked but never really seen anyone else discuss. Anything that doesn't care about -3 DEF almost certainly does care very much about -3 SPD, and anything that can cope with -3 SPD probably can't cope with -3 DEF. I'm just kind of fascinated with quirks like that and there's a certain elegance to it, yaknow?
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Apr 18, 2017 1:41:45 GMT
I like this list. I've been theorycrafting off-forum with friends and came up with a similar list - less solos and only one bomber but I squeezed in another heavy. If I may ask, why do you think Kaya3 is going to see play? I still maintain she's not good enough to see any real play over the current top roster of Circle. I didn't mean to pick on her too much specifically, it's just that the KCMO players love melee and she strikes me as the kind of thing the local circle players would want, though I don't know nearly enough about that to say for sure. I am worried about Fyanna. I have only played against her once but I had a huge brain fart and I thought that I'd checked her threat ranges but I actually didn't. Still, she uses flight better than anything I've seen in MK 3 so far, and the Sorceress has multiple ways to be a giant pain in the ass. Have you seen her with the Twins? Occultation? On the Sorceress? So, that's how Legion deals with guns... /barf
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Apr 18, 2017 2:59:49 GMT
KCMO?
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Apr 18, 2017 9:05:04 GMT
Well, not just Kansas City. I guess "MOKAN" would be more accurate. That's what the Facebook group is called. I live in Lawrence, KS.
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Post by Hotwater on Apr 18, 2017 19:18:27 GMT
I keep dojoing Grim1, but haven't found a list I'm quite happy with. I might try your list out for game night and see how that goes.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Apr 18, 2017 20:34:35 GMT
Well, not just Kansas City. I guess "MOKAN" would be more accurate. That's what the Facebook group is called. I live in Lawrence, KS. Ah. Cool Beans.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Apr 19, 2017 3:01:34 GMT
Well, not just Kansas City. I guess "MOKAN" would be more accurate. That's what the Facebook group is called. I live in Lawrence, KS. Ah. Cool Beans. I only ever knew one other person who said "cool beans" and that was back in the 90s. So.. I am thinking of leaving theme for Swamp Gobbers and either Sluggers or Bushwackers. I think that a shooting unit might be just what I need to not only ease fury management a bit but to be a little more flexible in terms of damage output. Either unit could be really good on the feat turn against high DEF targets with that penalty. Since many of them don't have great boxes or ARM for their base sizes, POW 13 should suffice if the beasts can take down some of the tougher pieces. The Gobbers could combine with the Shamans to build a full-blown cloud wall. That's not terribly helpful against most Legion lists, but for most of the other stuff sure. Even in that case they can cap a flag well enough for 2 points. While I'm at it, maybe Alten Ashley too? GW on Typhon or any beasts that lose Spirit? One last note is that leaving theme really opens up the toolbox for Specialists.
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