|
Post by The Trane on Apr 16, 2017 7:43:00 GMT
Hi all,
getting back to the game after some time off (I'm not very experienced, though), and getting into Minions and in particular the Bacons. I haven't invested much yet, just a unit of Brigands (to test out my paint scheme), but looking at the casters I'm drawn towards – and this mainly in terms of model look – Sturm & Drang and Dr Arkadius. Any ideas on how to build a good pairing with these two? DrA will obviously be beast heavy, S&D also like their beasts, but perhaps could support a combined arms approach, screening with Sturm and e.g. Brigands before bringing on Drang & the beasts?
Any suggestions? Or would I be better off with another pairing? I'm not super-competitive, but still I don't want to lose already at the list stage ...
Oh, and: Is there any decent way to get meat threshers in there? Because, killing machines.
|
|
|
Post by Azahul on Apr 16, 2017 8:33:46 GMT
Sturm and Drang are the only pig Warlock who really offer good support to the Meat Thresher. Polarity Shield is a fantastic spell for it. So I'd fully suggest that.
I don't think it's necessarily a bad pairing (well, I dislike Sturm and Drang in general, but in the context of using them I don't think it's a bad way to do so). Arkadius can be built to crack armour very easily, and with a Meat Thresher and a few Battle Boars (with Drang taking them to Mat 9) you can build Sturm and Drang to take on infantry. You won't get very good use out of their Feat that way, but their Feat is only really very good into Hordes to begin with. I do like Brigands and a few other guns with Sturm and Drang, and with the Thornfall Alliance theme force a Brigand unit with Warlord, a Meat Thresher, and a minimum unit of Bone Grinders for Crafts Talisman gets you to the point where you're already getting, say, two Razorback Crews for free.
|
|
|
Post by darkangeldentist on Apr 16, 2017 10:42:10 GMT
I like Arkadius with Sturm & Drang as a pairing and have been using them for the last few months. Just started a thread about it in fact, so I can say that they make a pretty decent list pair from experience. I don't own and haven't ever used a meat thresher so I can't really say what works best with it but Polarity field and deceleration from Sturm are both excellent spells to support it, although I think all the farrow casters can do something useful for it.
Arkadius is an excellent armour cracker but can run into trouble against the serious heavy spam lists (I wouldn't like to face 10 marauders with him) and Sturm & Drang are very much best into hordes match ups, although I'm finding them not too bad into Cryx with a combined arms approach but I definitely need more practice there.
|
|
|
Post by The Trane on Apr 16, 2017 12:46:10 GMT
Thanks for responses!
I played around a bit in Warroom; what do you think of this as a start?
Theme: The Thornfall Alliance 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Sturm & Drang - WB: +28 - Targ - PC: 4 - Road Hog - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16) - Road Hog - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Gun Boar - PC: 9 - War Hog - PC: 15
Meat Thresher - PC: 19
Farrow Bone Grinders - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5 Farrow Brigands - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Farrow Brigand Warlord - PC: 4 Farrow Razorback Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 0 Farrow Razorback Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 0
|
|
|
Post by Corrupted Bauer on Apr 17, 2017 6:24:17 GMT
Thanks for responses! I played around a bit in Warroom; what do you think of this as a start? Theme: The Thornfall Alliance 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Sturm & Drang - WB: +28 - Targ - PC: 4 - Road Hog - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16) - Road Hog - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Gun Boar - PC: 9 - War Hog - PC: 15 Meat Thresher - PC: 19 Farrow Bone Grinders - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5 Farrow Brigands - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Farrow Brigand Warlord - PC: 4 Farrow Razorback Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 0 Farrow Razorback Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 0 I'd love to say needs more solos, it if you're going in theme there isn't much more you can add. One big thing though is you need a battle boar. My suggestion is if you have Arkadius go beast heavy and whatnot, with this list you can drop one road hog and get a battle boar and another gun boar. That would shift you towards a nasty gun line that can deal with a lot of infantry and still be backed by a touch of can crack armor. The other plan would be from the first point to drop the second road hog for Rorsh and Brine since S&D can do a lot of fun good things with them and they dont necessarily need the biggest battlegroup, but that one is up to you
|
|
|
Post by Azahul on Apr 17, 2017 8:24:45 GMT
Thanks for responses! I played around a bit in Warroom; what do you think of this as a start? Theme: The Thornfall Alliance 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Sturm & Drang - WB: +28 - Targ - PC: 4 - Road Hog - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16) - Road Hog - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Gun Boar - PC: 9 - War Hog - PC: 15 Meat Thresher - PC: 19 Farrow Bone Grinders - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5 Farrow Brigands - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Farrow Brigand Warlord - PC: 4 Farrow Razorback Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 0 Farrow Razorback Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 0 I'd love to say needs more solos, it if you're going in theme there isn't much more you can add. One big thing though is you need a battle boar. My suggestion is if you have Arkadius go beast heavy and whatnot, with this list you can drop one road hog and get a battle boar and another gun boar. That would shift you towards a nasty gun line that can deal with a lot of infantry and still be backed by a touch of can crack armor. The other plan would be from the first point to drop the second road hog for Rorsh and Brine since S&D can do a lot of fun good things with them and they dont necessarily need the biggest battlegroup, but that one is up to you I agree that you need a Battle Boar. Sturm and Drang lack a damage buff, so Primal becomes extremely useful. And Drang's combination of Pack Hunter and free charge is excellent for the Battle Boar when it comes to mopping up infantry. Rather than lose a Road Hog though, I'd suggest removing Targ and the Gun Boar for a Battle Boar and Hutchuck. Hutchuck is really useful with Telekinesis, he can open up assassinations and he provides a second damage buff into Warmachine. He can be a bit tricky to get the most from though.
|
|
|
Post by darkangeldentist on Apr 17, 2017 10:12:12 GMT
Thanks for responses! I played around a bit in Warroom; what do you think of this as a start? Theme: The Thornfall Alliance 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Sturm & Drang - WB: +28 - Targ - PC: 4 - Road Hog - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16) - Road Hog - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Gun Boar - PC: 9 - War Hog - PC: 15 Meat Thresher - PC: 19 Farrow Bone Grinders - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5 Farrow Brigands - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Farrow Brigand Warlord - PC: 4 Farrow Razorback Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 0 Farrow Razorback Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 0 Looks like a decent starting point for sure. I'd want to see a battle boar in any S&D list simply because they lack any damage buffs themselves and I have found them struggle to crack armour sometimes. I'd be tempted to say drop the gun boar and Targ for a battle boar and Alten Ashley but there are a number of options you could explore to fit a battle boar in. Another thing you could change are the free models since Effarit scouts are available, their armour piercing shots are quite accurate and they are very mobile making them excellent support and harassment pieces. However the model is very hit or miss aesthetically. Play a few games with it and see what works or doesn't and let us know how things went.
|
|
|
Post by The Trane on Apr 23, 2017 7:51:38 GMT
Well, I for one really like the Efaarit look, so why not. And while the Meat Thresher doesn't get very much love atm, I think battle engines are up for the next CID, and as my MT won't be painted before that cycle ends, I'll trust the community to solve this for me One question though, Azahul mentioned that Polarity shield is fantastic with Meat thresher. I may be missing something here, but why is it particularly good with the MT? Anyway, I think I'll start off with this: Theme: The Thornfall Alliance 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Sturm & Drang - WB: +28 - Targ - PC: 4 - Battle Boar - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Road Hog - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16) - War Hog - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 5) - Gun Boar - PC: 9 - Gun Boar - PC: 9 Meat Thresher - PC: 19 Efaarit Scouts - PC: 0 Efaarit Scouts - PC: 0 Farrow Bone Grinders - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5 Farrow Brigands - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Farrow Brigand Warlord - PC: 4
|
|
|
Post by darkangeldentist on Apr 23, 2017 12:08:17 GMT
The Meat thresher is quite slow with only a mediocre melee threat and it's guns bring it into the usual charge threat of a great many enemies. Polarity field is a fantastic spell period, so it's good on the meat thresher by default but a couple of things do make it a better target for this spell than most alternatives. As a battle engine it can't be pushed, boasts high(ish) armour and a decent number of boxes (hopefully going up significantly after CID) so robbing opponents of the benefits from charging has a very significant impact on it's survivability. Without the boosted damage from charging most infantry can do little damage if any. It's also helps counter the meat thresher's mediocre threat range making it much more likely to get a charge off and do some damage before the opponent is able to walk a heavy in a scrap it. If they are forced to trample up to a meat thresher there is a decent chance of the battle engine surviving the 2-3 attacks that could be bought against it so long as the thresher is starting with full health.
Sturm & Drang also have a few other tricks that make them go well with the meat thresher. Deceleration gives it +2 ARM against ranged and magic so it'll shrug off most incoming fire unless it's boosted. Sturm's shield guard field marshal ability also helps on the way in as it can prevent the battle engine taking too much damage from enemy guns. Beasts are easier to heal after all.
|
|
|
Post by The Trane on Apr 23, 2017 15:33:05 GMT
Thanks for spelling this out
|
|
|
Post by Azahul on Apr 24, 2017 2:11:53 GMT
The other element is board presence. The Meat Thresher, on a huge base, takes up a good chunk of the board with a survivable model. Since we don't have a Gargantuan, the only comparable way of getting that amount of space covered with Polarity Shield (ideally denying the opponent alternative charge targets) is by putting it on a unit. Sadly, none of our units are particularly tough, so there are a lot more threats to them than the Meat Thresher.
Once Polarity Shield is up the only real threats to the Meat Thresher are going to be heavies within walking distance or a good number of weapon master infantry (again, within walking distance). Hopefully with the Battle Engine CID we'll see the increased toughness of the Meat Thresher make it even better in this department.
|
|