|
Post by pyr0maniacal on Oct 9, 2018 15:03:43 GMT
Hi guys,
Let's say someone had gotten two Ret Mystery Boxes and was thinking along the lines of a two-colossal list for some reason. What would be some necessary other components in such a situation? And trying to keep it cheapish? Thanks!
|
|
|
Post by shroomvolcano on Oct 9, 2018 17:08:50 GMT
Hi guys, Let's say someone had gotten two Ret Mystery Boxes and was thinking along the lines of a two-colossal list for some reason. What would be some necessary other components in such a situation? And trying to keep it cheapish? Thanks! A third colossal! But for real, the obvious(?) thing is Arcanists, keep those Colossals topped up and punchy, and probably a unit for scoring circle zones. Do you have a caster or theme you particularly like the look of? We could probs theorycraft a list around it whether it's Mage Hunter Infiltrators or Invictors or whatever caster. Also, thanks for the lowdown, Apoc, those are good to keep in mind. I think Khador AC is going to be tough and there's a player in my meta who likes Hark triple clams, blargh. I've been idly reading some battle reports from earlier this year where people would play the original double-Helios Pacific Rim, the extra shooting from the second Hyperion and extra support are definitely going to go a long way.
|
|
|
Post by pyr0maniacal on Oct 10, 2018 1:39:25 GMT
Well, considering what I have (two mystery boxes both with Invictors and a light), I'd start off with a Legions of the Dawn list (probably with Issyria) and a Forges list (using Helynna). I already picked up a unit of House Shyeel Arcanists, a couple of Arcanist Mechaniks and a House Shyeel Artificer. I'm strongly considering picking up the bits to make one of the two Manticores into Discordia.
|
|
|
Post by shroomvolcano on Oct 10, 2018 12:30:07 GMT
I'm pretty new at Ret, but you could definitely do something like: conflictchamber.com/#c5201b_-0hg043gjmx3y3y3ye10v4LhM3uRetribution Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Forges of War [Helynna 1] Magister Helynna [+30] - Discordia [18] - Helios [34] - Hyperion [32] Arcanist Mechanik [2] Arcanist Mechanik [2] Arcanist Mechanik [2] Elara, Tyro of the Third Chamber [0(4)] - Manticore [14] House Shyeel Artificer [0(5)] House Shyeel Arcanists [0(7)] - Soulless Escort (1) [1] And it would be pretty killer and only a couple more models to flesh out, though you could definitely swap the Manticore to Helynna or the Artificer and use Sylys for the free upkeep/boost for Hand of Destruction. Discordia has anti-magic, Helios and Helynna have a bundle of movement tricks, Hyperion and the Manticores give you decent anti-infantry, I think it could work pretty great. The Soulless Escort is in there mostly as a 1 point filler, he does offer a little bit of anti-spell protection for your Arcanist unit, but I think he's pretty optional. Alternatively you could run: conflictchamber.com/#c5201b_-0hg02wgjmx0v0v3y3y4LhM3uRetribution Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Forges of War [Helynna 1] Magister Helynna [+30] - Gorgon [9] - Helios [34] - Hyperion [32] - Manticore [14] - Manticore [14] Arcanist Mechanik [0(2)] Arcanist Mechanik [2] House Shyeel Artificer [0(5)] House Shyeel Arcanists [0(7)] It sounds like you have the rest of the list. Rhythm of War lets the Manticores move real fast and can act as a flak shield for your colossals while also preventing infantry charges with Covering Fire. Gorgon sprays slow down enemy Warjacks before you scoot them back with Helynna and Helios (who also provides the extra focus to all of your Warjacks taking some pressure off of the Arcanists). This list could be pretty sweet and super stompy with the double colossal. PS: Helios' Broadcast Power synergizes with Manticores once they close to melee: Manticores have to spend a focus to get their +3 Str buff going, but that happens at the beginning of it's activation, the same time as Helios's Broadcast Power focus gain, meaning that you get to choose which resolves first. Resolve the Strength buff, then the Broadcast Power focus gain and you can have both PS18 on your melee attacks AND 3 focus.
|
|
|
Post by apoc2148 on Oct 10, 2018 13:09:41 GMT
PS: Helios' Broadcast Power synergizes with Manticores once they close to melee: Manticores have to spend a focus to get their +3 Str buff going, but that happens at the beginning of it's activation, the same time as Helios's Broadcast Power focus gain, meaning that you get to choose which resolves first. Resolve the Strength buff, then the Broadcast Power focus gain and you can have both PS18 on your melee attacks AND 3 focus. This is an important interaction I need to remember!
|
|
|
Post by shroomvolcano on Oct 10, 2018 16:52:41 GMT
PS: Helios' Broadcast Power synergizes with Manticores once they close to melee: Manticores have to spend a focus to get their +3 Str buff going, but that happens at the beginning of it's activation, the same time as Helios's Broadcast Power focus gain, meaning that you get to choose which resolves first. Resolve the Strength buff, then the Broadcast Power focus gain and you can have both PS18 on your melee attacks AND 3 focus. This is an important interaction I need to remember! It's true! Provided your Mechaniks use Concentrated Power as well, that's up to 5 PS20 attacks! That averages around 40-45 damage depending on what you're hitting and provided you do indeed hit every attack.* *results may very, statistical probability does not always reflect real-life results
|
|
|
Post by pyr0maniacal on Oct 10, 2018 20:07:16 GMT
Oh my goodness, I didn't know that! Brutal!
|
|
germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
|
Post by germanicus on Oct 11, 2018 2:54:56 GMT
Oh my goodness, I didn't know that! Brutal! Yah, the joys of active player determining sequence of ability resolution. Now, unrelated, but if only Force Grip worked on friendly models, we'd all be terribly giddy...!
|
|
boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
|
Post by boozy on Oct 11, 2018 9:39:34 GMT
Regarding bad matchups for the triple threat robot list. I haven't seen a stealth skew in a long time. Anti-push tech makes sense, but I would've thought multi-wound/boxes that punch above weight would be the one to dodge. Anamag with Ogrun sound like natural predators for this list, Maelok, maybe AC as well.
What's your experience into those kinds of lists?
|
|
|
Post by apoc2148 on Oct 11, 2018 12:29:11 GMT
Regarding bad matchups for the triple threat robot list. I haven't seen a stealth skew in a long time. Anti-push tech makes sense, but I would've thought multi-wound/boxes that punch above weight would be the one to dodge. Anamag with Ogrun sound like natural predators for this list, Maelok, maybe AC as well. What's your experience into those kinds of lists? While those lists boast high armor they generally don't boast all that high of defense, except for GMP praying for concealment. So hitting them with ranged attacks shouldn't be too difficult. I'll break down my thoughts against each list since they all bring something different to the table.
Anamag PT:
What she brings: arm and str buff spell, arm defuff (feat), blightbringer for more arm/str buff. One unit of mongers with a 12" threat using mini-feat, generally 1 unit of chosen and hellmouths. Mat fixer via gorag.
Warmongers and chosen both have the potential to reach pow 20 in the list. But with few targets for ritual slaughter to proc off of, anamag will have to cast all her buffs herself keeping her low on fury most turns. On a charge with average rolls one fully buffed unit (blightbringer aura, str spell, feat) should be able to take down a colossal. However, it is good to note that a huge base (120mm) is only 4.72" in diameter so the 5" aoe from the blightbringer will fit over the huge base, but they will have to be within 0.3" to gain the str bonus. So any unit going into a huge base will need to almost come into b2b contact to be able to benefit from the blightbringer shot buff. So while the total threat ranges of the warmongers varies from 10"-12" with gorag, they will still have to start within 8.3" (10.3" for the chosen) of the colossal to be at max pow. Hellmouths will be annoying for scenario but can largely be ignored.
Counters: The blightbringer is really the crux of the list. If you are able to pull models out of the aura they will die much easier. If you can focus fire down the blightbringer the rest of the list should get easier to deal with. Each starburst should kill/force a tough on a warmonger with average rolls.
In a turn you should be able to get 4 starburst shots from 16" away. Snipe starts on one hyperion and gets focus from arcanists, it then moves up and takes all its shots. 2nd hype gets fill from arcanist as well or from broadcast power. Ravyn activates, open fires the current snipe'd hyperion, swaps snipe to other one and open fires it. 2nd hyperion activates and takes all its shots. That should easily wipe out a unit of warmongers from 16-21" away while keeping both hyperions out of retaliation range. Scenario might be an issue though, but if you are able to blast enough of a hole in their list on the way in that shouldn't be too much of an issue. And if you ever get a change for helios to drag anamag out in LOS, shoot her up.
Maelok and all the GMP:
What it brings: Lots of 8 wound arm 20 models with tough, generally backed up by some beasts (wrastler and sometimes a dracodile). Some arm cracking with mortality, but severely lacking when compared to anamag. This list wants to jam you out of scenario with lots of bodies and the +2" extra deployment.
Counters: All the shooting on the way in should be able to deal with a lot of the infantry. Once the GMP get bogged down their damage output decreases significantly. Whereas the colossi should be able to force a tough check with each melee attack. Look for opening shooting lanes to Maelok once the lines collide and focus fire him down. Ravyn herself should be able to clean up on the GMP pretty well herself too. Hyperions should deal with the infantry while Helios heads towards the beasts. As long as they aren't bringing a dracodile, most of the minion beast will only get 1-2 meaningful attacks against the helios with repulsor field up.
Armored Core:
What it brings: Honestly this list I have the least experience with or against. I've read a lot of battle reports during cid and reviewed all the changes after CID. The list can vary so widely depending on which caster they choose to pair it with. They will have some armor cracking ability, but since colossi can't be made stationary, the demo crew won't be hitting near as hard. The anti-push will be an issue, but again you will out threaten them will all the guns. The 4x starburst per round will really be a savoir in the list and hopefully be enough to punch holes in the shield walls so the thresher cannons can pick on the lower armor demo crew behind them. The tankers and chariots will be an issue, but you should be able to out-threaten them as well with the guns.
In a mirror match up, any shadows of ret list will be a super pain in the butt.
|
|
|
Post by shroomvolcano on Oct 12, 2018 12:59:32 GMT
It's official, my third mystery box colossal is in the mail, I'll be painting it up and playing Pacific Rim all November. I'm definitely going to try to get as many games into as many different lists as I can, and I'll try to post up here with results.
I think agree with your points there, and I'm super worried about Maelok. My initial thought for a list pair is with Shadows. Either face a triple colossal threat, or a list that excels at killing jacks from range, but it feels like neither of those lists have any game into Maelok at all. Hm.
I think AC and PT aren't amazing, but I think AC can be beaten pretty easily, four Starburst cannon shots, two boosted should be able to kill 2-3 Shocktroopers, even in Shield Wall, and Thresher Cannon shots can ding them up pretty bad out of Shield Wall. Helios can try to disrupt that Shield Wall and slow them down as well. If they're using Marauders and Vlad1 or Old Witch3, we're probably in trouble and maybe we should consider dropping something else, but otherwise I think we can do it.
PT I'm not super worried about, they can crack Armor well, but even Chosen will die to boosted Starburst Cannon shots, and have a decent chance of dying to unboosted shots. Even if we only kill 2-3 with our initial Snipe volley, that's a 10-12 point advantage already, and they can only run to melee. Managing those charge threat ranges is going to be the big thing into PT, and between those big shots and Helios pushing them back, I think it's not such a terrible match-up.
Overall the biggest thing is probably action economy. With only 3 big attacking models and the rest support, a single missed shot is going to be a big hit to our efficiency.
|
|
boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
|
Post by boozy on Oct 13, 2018 18:31:37 GMT
Shroomvolcano, which waecaster do you intend to run Pacific Rim with?
On Maelok, my initial concern wasn't their ability to thrash the robots, but instead ability to close, jam, and survive enough abuse to then feat and assassinate by running through the robot wall.
Then I remembered all the magic weapons for free strikes. EDIT: Belay that. Apparently the colossals don't have native magic weapons. I've gotten used to thinking all Ret warjacks do. I think the Maelok match is fine (or maube not). If it's the single Dracodile version, he doesn't hit hard enough to reliably one-shot a robot. If there's a Wrastler as well, that cuts into Posse points, and the Wrastler is a weak link for Helios pushes. Same with multiple Wrastlers. If Maelok feats to buff ARM and close, he loses assassination.
I think it's a favorable matchup.
|
|
|
Post by shroomvolcano on Oct 15, 2018 12:38:32 GMT
Shroomvolcano, which waecaster do you intend to run Pacific Rim with? On Maelok, my initial concern wasn't their ability to thrash the robots, but instead ability to close, jam, and survive enough abuse to then feat and assassinate by running through the robot wall. Then I remembered all the magic weapons for free strikes. EDIT: Belay that. Apparently the colossals don't have native magic weapons. I've gotten used to thinking all Ret warjacks do. I think the Maelok match is fine (or maube not). If it's the single Dracodile version, he doesn't hit hard enough to reliably one-shot a robot. If there's a Wrastler as well, that cuts into Posse points, and the Wrastler is a weak link for Helios pushes. Same with multiple Wrastlers. If Maelok feats to buff ARM and close, he loses assassination. I think it's a favorable matchup. I'm going helm my robot squad with Ravyn for the time being. The Maelok list I've played into most is something like: Minion Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Blindwater Congregation [Maelok 1] Maelok the Dreadbound [+28] - Blackhide Wrastler [16] - Boneswarm [7] - Boneswarm [7] - Bull Snapper [0(5)] Bone Shrine [2] Gatorman Husk [3] Gatorman Witch Doctor [0(4)] Gatorman Witch Doctor [4] Swamp Gobber Chef [1] Thrullg [0(5)] Boil Master & Spirit Cauldron [5] Gatorman Posse (min) [10] Gatorman Posse (max) [16] Gatorman Posse (max) [16] Gatorman Posse (max) [16] Mostly, I'm worried about going second and getting shut out on scenario. It's a lot of meat to chew through, and under Death Pact Posse are very resilient to shooting at ARM 18 and 8 boxes, and really fast for medium base infantry with Death Ride. It could definitely happen on Mirage, Spread the Net or maybe Standoff. As an aside, I think the Pacific Rim list is NOT going to like ambushing models. Diverting an entire colossal to deal with a little ambush unit is going to major suck. Like Ravyn can deal with some, she has decent shooting and Sprint after tangling in melee, but I don't think that's generally going to be enough. On the bright side, my third colossal kit arrived and I've started construction on all three of them. The Ret colossal kits are surprisingly complex and time-intensive to build, it took me like 1.5 Blade movies to finish one lol.
|
|
boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
|
Post by boozy on Oct 15, 2018 17:21:43 GMT
Good point on Ambushers, they will wreck Rayvn's world if she's operating on a low/no camp strategy. That's one of the likely auto-lose criteria I'm trying to factor in when I build a pairing. Another is anything with Shadow Fire or other LoS ignoring tech and good range.
I'm not a complete faction hopper, but Ret will require buy in to complete the Pacific Rim pairing, so I want to try to do it with some economy. I like the Rahn kit, and a double Helios, double magic mittens makes an interesting tech check and on the lean, if I magnetize the robots. That however is screwed by anti-push/place tech, so I need to find a way to make the pairing work. The other candidate I like is a DoI based Thyron list with Vyre myrmidons, but that would require a lot of purchases?
I'm open to suggestions. What would you more experienced genocidal psychopaths pair a Rayvn Pacific Rim list with, on a nominal budget? I already will need to purchase two more robots and support, and if there's another warcaster that can run Pacific Rim in a different mode to pair with her, that would soften the wallet punch.
|
|
|
Post by shroomvolcano on Oct 15, 2018 18:18:31 GMT
I'm a total faction hopper, started with a mystery box, but I'm inheriting a ton of Ret infantry from a friend who's leaving the game. Right now I'm thinking of pairing with an Ossyan Shadows list, double Strike Force, Infiltrators, etc. to take down any particularly jack-heavy lists the triple colossals can't deal with (eg Hark Marauders) or incorp spam (eg Ghost Fleet, although I have not seen this at all in recent days).
Rahn double Helios sounds pretty cool, he probably wants an arc node as well. There's not too many anti-push lists floating around so that might work, you can really threaten assassination or bump out of scenario well.
|
|