What makes the Winter Guard Battle Engine Good?

I'll try one more time I guess.
Something that is hard to understand for new players, is that killing power isn't everything in this game. If it were you could take say, a juggernaut, and since it automatically hits harder and is tougher than pretty much everything in the game for its points.. you'd just win all the time. I mean you could make an argument that there's a better warjack out there.. more effecient. But even one that was twice as good as a juggernaut would still end up losing games. It's speed 4 with 1 inch reach. This is a game where speed is probably the most important stat in the game, especially if it comes with a reposition as well. Speed and a good range might not look so good on paper, but if you spend 40 points on marauders or juggernauts, and I spend 40 points on two carriages, I'm going to make you hate life.
By the same theory, butcher1 is the best caster in the game because nothing hits harder than him right? I mean he has fury and that feat, and then he can even make his battlegroup hit better (edit).. he even has an armor buff! But he's really one of our worst casters right now because he does nothing fast, nothing tricky. Even in games without a board to measure on strength is not everything. Take magic, I haven't played in a decade but back then you had like 10/10 trample monsters, and they hardly ever did anything because they were not tricky or smart.
Gun carriage isn't exactly what I'd call a finesse piece mind you, it's a kind of a straightforward piece of equipment.. but it has a high speed and a high range, and it hits really hard for guns, and when you play it right they'll never take it from you.

Despite what others have said, I actually tend to agree with you. It's generally NOT worth taking for the amount of points it costs.

You need a specific reason as to why it goes in your list.

The main benefit is that you pay no focus for it to do all the stuff. Knock down is good and its guns don't suck. It's sort of a very expensive tool box that isn't the best at any of the things it does. But can do a few different things that would otherwise take a couple of different models to do.

Argh! I had a beautiful post, and the lormahorde dog ate my homework.

I will try again...

I'm with Voodoo on this one. The GC is a great toolbox. It's not for every list, and I'm going to think about what I don't need to take if I pay the points for this Swiss Army knife. Here's why I like it.

1. Long Range. I like shooting things from 23" away. Trample & shoot is good.
2. The Guns. POW 16, RAT 5 guns are good. And you get a little baby sniper rifle.
3. The AOEs. The 4" AOEs can clear chaff.
4. The Rough Terrain. This is huge. It means you're always getting work done by this thing, even Turn 1.
5. The Speed. It's speed can be game saving on scenario.
6. Pathfinder. We frequently need this. I like having some pathfinder in my list. I like being able to trample through forests and shoot.
7. Reposition. This makes the piece quite versatile - both in terms of getting out of the way, and not dying.
8. Screener. Unlike our colossals, the huge base plus speed plus repo make it an effective screener.
9. Cavalry Charge. I like boosted attack and damage rolls on a charge. You're going to hit warpwolves this way.
10. Impact Attacks. You're going to get a lot of these with your huge base.
11. Slam/Knockdown. This works both on the charge attack, and impact attacks. That's huge. Slammed stuff then hits more stuff
12. Dual Attack. I like shooting knocked down stuff. Or stuff that's far away (yeah, you're not safe).
13. Trample. Corner case, but when it works you can clear out a lot of dudes. Or roll over them to get somewhere else.
14. Massive. No pushes, slams, knockdowns, throws, grievous wounds, stationary.
15. Doesn't Die Easily. Not trivially destroyed at ARM 20 with 24 boxes. It's also repairable. Corner case, but glorious when you pull it off.

So at this point...I'm kinda out of things, but I felt like I was so close to a Top 20 list, that I added 5 more.

16. It Looks Marvelous. My GC is painted, and looks marvelous. It really does.
17. It's Like the Spanish Inquisition. It looks scary, and some opponents don't know all the things it does. People don't expect the things it does
18. Decoy! If they're killing that, they're not attacking your warjacks. OK, you're trading an 18 point model, but I'm trying to get to 20 things.
19. Easy Transport. I bought the battle foam carrying case for it, and it works really, really well. Not kidding here folks.
20. It's About to Be New and Improved! It's going into the next CID cycle with the stated aim of making battle engines better.

Made it.

Now, point #15 is also my pet peeve with this thing. I really, really think it should have as many boxes as a warjack. The thing's a freaking tank, and although I said it doesn't die easily, it's not too hard to kill... OK, nothing in this game is hard to kill, but every time I go in for that "big round" I'm worried that the thing is going to just take a beating.

Now...the good news is that it's part of the next CID cycle and they said that battle engines were getting more boxes, along with "something" to help support your army. If ours gets anything north of 34, and some new "something", and doesn't lose something else, then I think it could start to reach "auto include" status in some Winterguard theme lists for me (maybe not for you, but for me).

Yes, I'm listing (nearly) everything it has because the the Gun Carraige is a Swiss Army knife.. It has a ton of tools, and they're all useful in one situation or another. Is any one tool as good as another specialist in our army? Generally not, although there are a couple of exceptions (laying down rough terrain being one of them. Regarding your counterpoint, no I don't think listing all the stats off, say, a Destroyer would make an equivalently strong case. It's SPD 4, for instance, isn't good. Neither is RAT 4, so you wind up needing to boost to hit nearly anything that's not knocked down.



If you're only bringing it primarily for the long range guns, then it's likely overcosted. The model might not suit your playstyle or the kind of lists you're bringing, which is legit, but your OP asked the question "What makes the Winter Guard Battle Enging Good?" We've laid it out. We're not at a standstill since neither I nor Voodoo nor anyone else has anything invested in changing your mind! I'm not trying to win an argument. I'm just answering the question in your OP by offering you my perspective based on playing the model.

It doesn't sound like you want what it has to offer. But it's not a bad or unplayable model. It is "the most competitive" think we have for every list? No. (But back to the CID, if they give it an infantry buff and 36 boxes, I probably won't pack a WGK theme list without one...)

As someone who is currently playing Khador but has primarily only played against them, the idea that the a Gun Carriage is a D+ is simply ridiculous.

Seriously, this whole thread is as it seems to be a kind of vanity thread: pose a question but then rail against every answer that you don't like.

Put simply, the Gun Carriage is excellent. If you don't like it, that's fine, but it is far from useless and it is nowhere near the bottom of the barrel. It's at least a solid B for all of its utility.

Like I already said, you need a reason why you're taking it in a list. Some casters like it better than others. Sorscha 1 can get good work done with it for exmaple.