gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Aug 23, 2018 23:16:09 GMT
How has Madrak fallen off hard? He's the most represented warlock since the beginning of the year, the only DGI events where he isn't in the pair is Jaden's 2 placements, one champions event where he wasn't legal, one banky event, and two others. He's still going strong.
And as a follow up how does being popular mean you're the strongest? I still remember the ATC where Kolgrima was the most popular troll warlock (or second most but the point is she was quite common) and she had something like a 25% winrate.
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Aug 24, 2018 9:16:34 GMT
How has Madrak fallen off hard? He's the most represented warlock since the beginning of the year, the only DGI events where he isn't in the pair is Jaden's 2 placements, one champions event where he wasn't legal, one banky event, and two others. He's still going strong. And as a follow up how does being popular mean you're the strongest? I still remember the ATC where Kolgrima was the most popular troll warlock (or second most but the point is she was quite common) and she had something like a 25% winrate. I'm just saying that you don't see Madrak that much over here. You guys where giving your own experiences of your US meta and I was explaining that it's different over here, hence the difference in your list expectation compared to reality, because as global as WTC is, there are far more European players due to the number of countries and the huge travel expense so you would expect WTC to represent more of the European meta and that moved on from Madrak about 5 or 6 months ago.
As for stating something is the strongest. We moved on to her because we feel Kolgrima is the strongest. It's obviously personal opinion, but I was trying to explain her popularity and why the WTC stats where the way they are.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Aug 24, 2018 12:35:06 GMT
Kolgrimma has always been very strong; really her only problem is that she is so difficult to play well. Now that people have had time to put in the reps and learn I guess I can't be surprised. She is also a good choice for a second list to answer shooting and spells, which are pretty common weaknesses for our other lists. That frees us up quite a bit and gives her tons of good pairings, like Grim and Madrak 1.
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Aug 24, 2018 12:42:51 GMT
Kolgrimma has always been very strong; really her only problem is that she is so difficult to play well. Now that people have had time to put in the reps and learn I guess I can't be surprised. She is also a good choice for a second list to answer shooting and spells, which are pretty common weaknesses for our other lists. That frees us up quite a bit and gives her tons of good pairings, like Grim and Madrak 1. A lot of people are pairing her with Borka2 nowadays as well due to the need for a Grymkin drop.
Another thing worth noting his how little she cares about anti cloud tech. Yes it's better to have some than not at all, but I certainly wouldn't avoid dropping Kolgrima just because my opponent can see through clouds.
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Post by Bomma on Aug 26, 2018 7:34:26 GMT
I've thought about a list of a few Winter Trolls for her battle group, glad to see others have thought of that too.. Be interested to see how it goes. Good to see so much diversity in her lists? A bit strange to see only 2 Glacier Kings for her, the big guy has pretty much come to a must have for her I think?
B.
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Aug 26, 2018 11:29:05 GMT
I've thought about a list of a few Winter Trolls for her battle group, glad to see others have thought of that too.. Be interested to see how it goes. Good to see so much diversity in her lists? A bit strange to see only 2 Glacier Kings for her, the big guy has pretty much come to a must have for her I think? B. Whenever I think about putting them both in a list, I feel like I have all my eggs in one cold basket, and I back off. I mean, sure, they both do stuff if the enemy is cold-immune, I guess, but it doesn't feel like they would do enough. I don't think I have ever played into a cold-immune list, though, but I know they are out there and in my meta. I only have a very few games with her and maybe a dozen games with the glacier King, though, so maybe it is just my inexperience talking. Do y'all feel comfortable with having to one-list everything that is significantly immune to cold? Sorscha 1-2, Retribution Nyss theme, Storm, other Northkin mirrors, Goreshade 2-4 (particularly 4), and maybe some others?
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Aug 26, 2018 23:26:42 GMT
For the same cost as a Winter Troll, you can have two Northkin Shamans who have the same spray but with 6 to hit as opposed to 5. Granted, they can't boost and they are far more fragile, but they are great in scenario play and Granny likes all three of their abilities.
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Post by datboi on Aug 27, 2018 16:16:52 GMT
I've thought about a list of a few Winter Trolls for her battle group, glad to see others have thought of that too.. Be interested to see how it goes. Good to see so much diversity in her lists? A bit strange to see only 2 Glacier Kings for her, the big guy has pretty much come to a must have for her I think? B. How is he a must-have?
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Post by Trollock on Aug 28, 2018 7:30:39 GMT
For the same cost as a Winter Troll, you can have two Northkin Shamans who have the same spray but with 6 to hit as opposed to 5. Granted, they can't boost and they are far more fragile, but they are great in scenario play and Granny likes all three of their abilities. Do they really compete with each other though? I mean you have to bring some warbeasts, abd you rarely bring more than bare minimum. I mean sure, if your list has 60 points of infantry and 27(?) Points of warbeasts then you can argue over adding a winter ot two shaman (but most likely it will be neither imo).
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Post by Bomma on Aug 28, 2018 8:48:15 GMT
I've thought about a list of a few Winter Trolls for her battle group, glad to see others have thought of that too.. Be interested to see how it goes. Good to see so much diversity in her lists? A bit strange to see only 2 Glacier Kings for her, the big guy has pretty much come to a must have for her I think? B. How is he a must-have? He is a great board presence, has 54 boxes with armour 19/21, has a great ranged threat that pushes/crit stationary with 17" walking at pow 16, or 18" walking at pow 14 and has great usually late game melee presence with stationary on hit at pow 19. His aura of concealment is also nifty and a situational knock down animus is also fine. In my experience in playing her having models in the list that benefit from the stone cold at the same time she does is usually handy. Only downside I see is his point cost and have found running one beast crazy for fury management, getting work done and also having a transfer target. So have been pairing with a bouncer for the animus and a shield guard.. BUT that's 44 points :-( . B.
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Aug 28, 2018 9:23:35 GMT
He is a great board presence, has 54 boxes with armour 19/21, has a great ranged threat that pushes/crit stationary with 17" walking at pow 16, or 18" walking at pow 14 and has great usually late game melee presence with stationary on hit at pow 19. His aura of concealment is also nifty and a situational knock down animus is also fine. In my experience in playing her having models in the list that benefit from the stone cold at the same time she does is usually handy. Only downside I see is his point cost and have found running one beast crazy for fury management, getting work done and also having a transfer target. So have been pairing with a bouncer for the animus and a shield guard.. BUT that's 44 points :-( . B. Everything you said about why the GK is great with Kolg is absolutely true. I think people's issue is that it isn't a must have.
Kolgrima works amazing with almost anything. I used to run a GK and now I run a Mountain King, which is less synergistic but probably better overall due to it's sprays and raw hitting power.
Other people are finding success with Bomber and Mauler or with 4 lights or with Rok.
No one is arguing GK isn't good, just that must have implies any build without one is wrong and that is certainly not the case.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Aug 28, 2018 14:39:41 GMT
Kolgrimma can get away with running a garg because she can protect it with Owl's Wisdom. The GK is her choice of course because the same Elder who makes her sprays POW 14 makes its shots POW 16, and she can hide behind it knowing that even if the opponent does get LOS, the concealment aura will help as often as not.
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Aug 28, 2018 14:53:05 GMT
Kolgrimma can get away with running a garg because she can protect it with Owl's Wisdom. The GK is her choice of course because the same Elder who makes her sprays POW 14 makes its shots POW 16, and she can hide behind it knowing that even if the opponent does get LOS, the concealment aura will help as often as not. Just try her with the MK, might change your mind.
That deafen spray is so good against things that are prevalent in the meta currently. High arm, lots of boxes.
Plus the extra sprays make her assassinations even better
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snot
Light Addition
Posts: 63
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Post by snot on Aug 28, 2018 15:47:30 GMT
Beeing the guy with 4 wintertrollz: I decided on this since i tried most other versions and every one had some flaws: Only 2 beasts was most often though on scenario Big guys take away too much value imho Melee Power is often enough with doublebears / Champions Eventually i traded a Bomber for 2 more wintertrollz I dont care about pathfinder, stealth, concealment, cover, jamming,clouds, scenario but deal out less damage. Having 10 boostable sprays before kolgrimma activates also helps Lets see how WTC goes
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Post by Bomma on Aug 29, 2018 9:28:20 GMT
4 winter trolls might take it past where it is pretty good? I've tried two and found it lacking.
How did they go in practice games?
B.
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