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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 12, 2017 6:26:07 GMT
I bet 130 Bucks that Gibbs was never intended to be used that way. But again PP won't budge if questioned. Knockdown Flank Anyone? That's... a rather specific number....
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Apr 12, 2017 6:41:24 GMT
That's... a rather specific number.... Yes...It truly is.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 12, 2017 7:39:48 GMT
That's... a rather specific number.... Yes...It truly is. Is that how much a Conquest costs near you or something?
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Apr 12, 2017 11:29:18 GMT
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Apr 12, 2017 12:17:16 GMT
Consensus in he rules forum is that he eats and runs, so pulse not aura.
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wags
Junior Strategist
Posts: 102
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Post by wags on Apr 12, 2017 14:24:54 GMT
That's not so bad then. He has to be close enough to walk and use hot meal which gives things like widows or arcing fire a chance at removal . Not like he can hide 19 inches back in impunity.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Apr 13, 2017 22:05:04 GMT
Page 12, anytime abilities. You can use them before movement, which include a run. Since it's a minifeat, he can use it, then run. In Khador we can do the same thing with the IF Pikemen minifeat now run and end in shield wall. Still, it's total BS. Can he run and do that? The ability as worded sounds more like a pulse than an aura. Though it's missing the "currently within" vs "while within" wording that usually differentiates between them. It is in a way vague because of that. But if it's a pulse popping it and running won't do anything unless they were in his command when popped. If it's an aura that's all kinds of b.s. Gibbs absolutely can NOT run and then use Hot Meal minifeat. He can use it before he runs, but it is obviously a pulse, and therefore will only affect whoever is within 7" of him before he runs. Bottom line: Gibbs can remove damage from a model that is within 13" of him at the beginning of Gibbs activation (barring the ability to charge a model to get an extra 3 inches).
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Apr 14, 2017 2:05:07 GMT
Can he run and do that? The ability as worded sounds more like a pulse than an aura. Though it's missing the "currently within" vs "while within" wording that usually differentiates between them. It is in a way vague because of that. But if it's a pulse popping it and running won't do anything unless they were in his command when popped. If it's an aura that's all kinds of b.s. Gibbs absolutely can NOT run and then use Hot Meal minifeat. He can use it before he runs, but it is obviously a pulse, and therefore will only affect whoever is within 7" of him before he runs. Bottom line: Gibbs can remove damage from a model that is within 13" of him at the beginning of Gibbs activation (barring the ability to charge a model to get an extra 3 inches). That sums it up.
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Post by CodFather on Apr 14, 2017 3:33:00 GMT
So back to the actual thread topic.....
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Post by Netherby on Apr 14, 2017 8:09:05 GMT
Isn't the topic how stupid Gibbs is when combined with Stryker? It's a super obvious combo and people in my local were doing it as soon as the model came out. I don't see how PP could have missed that interaction. But Stryker is paying points to remove the down side to his feat and chip damage to him earlier in the game is still going to force him to roll fewer dice or pop the hot meal before the feat instead of after. So essentially doesn't change how you want to play into him.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Apr 14, 2017 12:35:37 GMT
Yes and no. I previously would feel ok taking an all melee army, but would now definitely want some long range tech to deal with Gibbs. I probably should have been doing that anyway...
Which brings us back to the thread topic.
I think marshalling one ranged jack with a forge seer is legit but haven't tried it yet. (I was going to go last night but traffic was so bad it would have taken 90 extra minutes to get to the game store, and starting a game at 7:45 pm on a weekday is bad for my marriage).
I can't get my head wrapped around doing this with the behemoth. Too much riding on keeping my jack Marshall alive and a determined opponent can get any solo dead without toooooo much worry.
The best options seem to be the Destoyer or...maybe... a decorator for the second POW 17 shot. Anyone try this?
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Apr 14, 2017 12:36:55 GMT
I think after looking at this again, I wouldn't likely marshal with Hark, no matter the jack. He just gives too many nice benefits to his battlegroup. I think I would marshal with a lot of other casters, but not him or Karchev.
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Post by sand20go on Apr 14, 2017 15:44:34 GMT
I think after looking at this again, I wouldn't likely marshal with Hark, no matter the jack. He just gives too many nice benefits to his battlegroup. I think I would marshal with a lot of other casters, but not him or Karchev. So there are pluses and minuses here. Lets look at the trade offs of marshalling versus just plugging them into Hark's battle group. W/Hark Mobility Repo Now those 2 things are HUGE. Don't get me wrong. But how is Hark really playing with Behemoth? It definitely is an "end game" piece. At standard Khador Armor you are not putting it out as "bait" versus your normal everyday Jugger. So we have to really wonder whether Mobility is going to be at play here on turn 3 on. Could be....but my experience is that at that point the lines have closed and that those 2 inches are not THAT important on the offensive front. Mobility CAN be important on the contesting/defensive front - but you probably in most games still have a kodiak to do that if need be - who can run 14 versus even behemoth's 12 if Behemoth is under Hark. So bottom line - for flexibilty and mobility (pun intended) w/Hark is better - and I think that means a match up where that stuff can be really important (Legion, Circle, to a lesser extent khador and swans.) w/seer (in some order of importance) Magic Weapons Blessed Aim True (+2 Damage so POW 16 Brutal and POW 9 blast Brutal) Crush (So POW 14 armor piercing with 3 initials and then probably 2 buys. Must be within 5 inches of the target) Hurry (+2 attack rolls so effective Mat 9) So lets think about Behemoth into AS Stormclad. We could look at SW but I think that the Stormclad is more "interesting" (and yes, it is a bit of a thumb on the side of the scale for our Forge seers) w/Hark we definitely have more threat with up to 10 inches on the Charge versus just 7 inches even with Hurry. So in some scenarios w/Hark is the only situation where it will even matter. But if within 7 lets play this out. w/Hark the Behemoth - fully loaded (i.e. with 3 focus) is doing dice minus 1. Lets assume a change and lets make it under feat so "free". so 9,6,6,6,6 for damage or 33 points. Not bad. You almost killed it. You did need 5s to hit. w/ Forge the Behemoth (Hurry Up) and 2 focus is at Dice +2 (blessed bypasses AS). So 12, 9, 9,9 or 39 points. You need 3s to hit. Now I cheated a bit by looking at a target with a buckler and arcane shield. That is a 4 point swing on the AP which matters a lot. But I think it underscores something - that one of the the BIG thing that the Forge seers give out is blessed. I REALLY gets stupid on Scary stormwall or if you can get Crush into play or if you can use Behemoth as a gun platform to shoot boosted POW 16s into Lances who don't get the benefit of AS. And into the Amon Match up - if it matters - No ARM +2 because of Fortify. Into some of the swans match ups no Decel +2 ARM bonus....and, with Aim True, you get near high explosives on the benefit. My only complaint - that the forge seers are MAT 6 and that triggering battle wizard into guaranteed ;-). There were at least 2 turns in the Tanith game where I really wanted to try but I feared not rolling 7s.
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wags
Junior Strategist
Posts: 102
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Post by wags on Apr 14, 2017 17:47:00 GMT
w/Hark the Behemoth - fully loaded (i.e. with 3 focus) is doing dice minus 1. Lets assume a change and lets make it under feat so "free". so 9,6,6,6,6 for damage or 33 points. Not bad. You almost killed it. You did need 5s to hit. w/ Forge the Behemoth (Hurry Up) and 2 focus is at Dice +2 (blessed bypasses AS). So 12, 9, 9,9 or 39 points. You need 3s to hit. I do agree with you on the potential of the marshalled behemoth I just wanted to clean this up a bit. Hurry up only gives you the plus 2 to hit on the charge attack roll. The other attacks will still require 5's to hit the stormclad. Also I might be missing something, but stormclads are 30 boxes, the hark example would in fact kill it. But the empower focus does give options. Instead of charging with hurry up, you could spend one focus to charge, and use the crush drive which will still give you four attacks, but with a functional pow 14 armor pierce. Or if you are concerned about hitting you use strike true, charge with an empower focus and while you'll only have 3 attacks, in your example with average dice you still do 30 against the stormclad, possibly a couple more if your first attack cripples the buckler. But yea, blessed is what sells marshalling behemoth to me.
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Apr 14, 2017 17:51:25 GMT
I do see your point sand, though I am not certain I totally agree with your list of the pros. I think Broadside should be added (sorry, but I like the spell and like using it when it works), and I think mobility is good even closer to the endgame. I don't know about everyone else, but there is a lot more terrain on the tables I am using. Having more ways to circumvent it is handy. Also, behemoth DOEs sometimes need to be put into melee. When that happens, a full focus load, mobility, and Hark's feat is a really nice combination.
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