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Post by javaman21011 on Jun 27, 2018 0:08:32 GMT
Sometimes it's not about triggering road to war, it's about the threat of it. Your opponent has to make sacrifices by playing around it. Sure, he could leave his widowmakers or kayazy eliminators on the back edge of the board so I can't trigger it, but then he has to use his jack's wasted attacks to remove servitors who are now free to be in the way. On top of that he has to watch out for axiom drags because dragging in and killing a jack is a great way to trigger road of war for another model. With redline he can drag from 18 inches away and he's going to kill what he drags. Even if you never trigger road to war Locke has the highest threat range in the faction because she can upkeep redline on a model, that model runs an extra 4 inches because it's plus 2 spd not movement, then she jackhammers that model as many times as it takes. Locke is the queen of threat ranges in convergence. Let's look at some numbers for an inverter or all the speed 5 jacks. Cipher and monitor is one less. Axis: feat for +2, diffuser: total threat 13 inches Lucant/ Iron Mom: Diffuser for 11 inches Aurora: Admonition and diffuser for 13 inches Syntherion: Magnetic hold and diffuser for 13 inches. Orion: Avenging force and diffuser makes 14 inches. Locke: redline, run, jackhammer is 14 inches for inverter, 15 for spd 5 jacks, 16 for axiom, possible road to war for non axiom models Redline, charge, diffuser is 13 inches which ties everyone except Orion for longest charge threat without road to war. Add in road to war for 16 inch charge threat. Not to mention with her field marshal you don't even need to kill the jack. Take out the cortex and its main weapon and most lists will have a hard time retaliating. The redline, run, jackhammer threat is the reason I want to change up my list to fit in a couple arcnodes and a unit of mechanics for scenario. I'd probably drop a conservator and a free reflex for 2 arcnodes, a unit of mechanics, and pay for the attunement instead of bringing them for free. Damn, I totally missed that Jackhammer is only RNG 6! So then if players are smart they will want to look for your little Arc Nodes and wipe them out. Though I suppose if your Colossal can run into melee there's enough room to get a ADO in there.
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Post by Korianneder on Jun 27, 2018 1:50:32 GMT
Yea and all of her movement buffs only affect warjacks, even road to war. So that's only an 11 inch walk and cast range on jackhammer.
I think that's another reason why a colossal is good with her. The big base means its easier to get in range for jackhammer. You could even bring the conflux if you want for sentry on it. Sustained attack is less useful with mat 9 and plasma nimbus is more useful with the feat. You could also drop a diffuser if you bring the conflux. Hmmm so many things to try.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Jun 27, 2018 15:10:46 GMT
Interesting points Korianneder, think I undervalue the threat of RtW alone, seems useful Yeah ADO seems necessary in her list, although it's 13 Jackhammer if she casts Engine of Destruction (which I guess she does most of the time). But with no Arc node it dictates too much where she needs to stand which often is too close to the enemy if you run max distance to Jackhammer something. What does the feat do for plasma nimbus?
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Post by Korianneder on Jun 27, 2018 17:49:55 GMT
More armor on the conflux means it takes more attacks to kill it, so you have more triggers of plasma nimbus. Against hordes you're more likely to break something and against warmachine you have more chances to spike rolls.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Jun 27, 2018 20:27:46 GMT
Bah, just that? I'd rather have the Axiom. Still need a Diffuser anyway if you want the Conflux to threat 14. Although the 6 points you save could be used to upgrade a Conservator to a Cipher and an extra ADO or drones.
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Post by javaman21011 on Jun 27, 2018 23:50:20 GMT
More armor on the conflux means it takes more attacks to kill it, so you have more triggers of plasma nimbus. Against hordes you're more likely to break something and against warmachine you have more chances to spike rolls. Or smart opponents will just kill the easier-to-kill models first and then go after the Conflux?
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Post by Korianneder on Jun 28, 2018 1:36:24 GMT
More armor on the conflux means it takes more attacks to kill it, so you have more triggers of plasma nimbus. Against hordes you're more likely to break something and against warmachine you have more chances to spike rolls. Or smart opponents will just kill the easier-to-kill models first and then go after the Conflux? I'm not entirely sure I understand what you mean. Whether you bring an axiom or a conflux that model is going to be front and center in scenario contesting and pretty much guaranteed to get up to def 10 arm 23 with the feat. What models are my opponent going to attack? The opponent could always attack servitors which I don't care about. Or he could attack conservators which can get up to def 14 arm 23 which is arguably harder to kill for him. He could attack my inverter/cipher which can get up to def 13 arm 22 which I guess would be the easier to kill model. But lets assume that I'm also a smart opponent and know how to position and know about sacrificial models and blocking charge lanes that if he's somehow getting the alpha against Locke it's not a very good alpha. But even then he's attacking my heavy instead of my colossal and letting my mat 9 pow 23 colossal wreck havoc on everything that comes into try to score on scenario and then some with jackhammer. Him attacking other models guarantees I get three catalytic tokens on the colossal because again, he's attacking heavies so he'll have to use focus/fury. It doesn't matter if it's an axiom or a conflux, the conflux just has the added ability that he can do some damage back when he's hit. Here's what I plan on trying out this weekend for reference: conflictchamber.com/#cc201b_-0ilId7dndndBd9g5dCdededfdfdzConvergence Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Destruction Initiative !!! Your army contains a pre-release entry. [Locke 1] Aurum Lucanum Athanor Locke [+29] - Cipher [16] - Conservator [12] - Conservator [12] - Corollary [6] - Inverter [15] - Prime Conflux [37] Algorithmic Dispersion Optifex [2] Attunement Servitors [0(4)] Attunement Servitors [0(4)] Elimination Servitors [0(3)] Elimination Servitors [0(3)] Optifex Directive [4] The conflux/Cipher can easily be swapped for axiom/inverter if you'd rather bring an axiom instead.
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Post by Korianneder on Jul 2, 2018 12:13:20 GMT
I played the above Locke list against Sorcha3 with lots of man o wars yesterday on the new mirage scenario. I ended up winning by jackhammering Sorcha3 to death after the conflux ran into position, but I would have won on scenario in a turn or two as well. A few things to take away from it:
Locke's feat is mediocre at best. I received a single catalytic token from Sorcha3 upkeeping a spell. Obviously this is dependent on the opponent's list, but in this case it didn't basically nothing. Mat 5 is rough. I thought after playing with Iron Mom for so long I'd be used to it. I plan on switching one of those elimination servitors for another attunement servitor. At least in this game, Locke doesn't seem to induct as well as other casters, which makes sense. Axis/Lucant can keep most of their jacks together through their feat and Mom/Orion have ranged jacks which can hang out together. Locke sends a single jack down field further than others. I did use road to war to move a second jack into induction range of the first, but it seems like it's harder to induct focus with her. This could also be that she's new and I'm not used to playing her. Her upkeeps take all of her focus first turn. Normally I would allocate a couple focus to try to get the corollary with a couple of carry over focus for the next turn. Locke has to spend 7 focus for her upkeeps. I might not need road to war until turn two, so there could be a little bit of options there. Sentry on a cipher is amazing. His army never made it to the center of the board and part of that reason was the three 4" aoe rough terrain that I could put out. Through the course of a game the conflux spend one turn shooting at a jack and did a handful of damage and put beacon on it that gave the inverter enough distance to charge it and kill it. This could have been replicated with a 6 point diffuser because the inverter had enough damage to kill it on its own. Then next turn he ran into jackhammer position for the kill which an axiom could have done just as easily. I'm still not sure. I like having the four heavies with the colossal for the range of threats. If I put in the axiom I'd lose a heavy in order to get a diffuser unless I spammed conservators. Axiom + 4 conservators + diffuser may be a better list.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Jul 2, 2018 17:56:11 GMT
Nice Korianneder! Thanks for the report Great with some first impressions. I am not surprised about the feat - granted I think Locke plays best into Hordes where there generally is used more FURY, buuuut as you say it's matchup dependent. Too much imo, since it's only +1/+1... Even some of the popular Hordes lists don't generate a lot of FURY like Trollbloods Champion brick, Legion Ogrun brick etc. I guess you don't like MAT 5 because it was not possible to activate Locke first to get MAT 9 most turns? Do you continue with that list, or did the Conflux disappoint enough to change it up?
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Post by javaman21011 on Jul 2, 2018 18:38:53 GMT
I concur, if your opponent brings only a couple of beasts/jacks, has Arc Nodes (and is able to keep his caster outside of her feat) and/or has some great infantry you will likely never get use out of her feat. Definitely a list-chicken situation.
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Post by Korianneder on Jul 2, 2018 20:09:01 GMT
The main issue with mat 5 is that I wanted Locke to spend as much focus as possible for jackhammers. But if she activates first then I might not have good jackhammer targets. It really just limits the order of activations you can have because you almost always need that mat 9.
I don't actually own four conservators so I'll probably try the conflux another game or two.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Jul 3, 2018 5:07:46 GMT
Yeah makes sense. At least the Corollary and Redline can help with that. How many times did you cast Jackhammer? (was it the main plan to run>jackhammer, or did you get some charges off as well)
Well you can always proxy for a couple of games. Do you think the Conservators hit hard enough? And no reach makes the Jackhammers a little more difficult..
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Post by Korianneder on Jul 3, 2018 13:44:00 GMT
Yeah makes sense. At least the Corollary and Redline can help with that. How many times did you cast Jackhammer? (was it the main plan to run>jackhammer, or did you get some charges off as well) Well you can always proxy for a couple of games. Do you think the Conservators hit hard enough? And no reach makes the Jackhammers a little more difficult.. I had three turns and turn 2 and 3 Locke cast engine of destruction then 5 jackhammers each turn. Sorcha3 feat makes clouds so turn 2 I ran and jackhammered since I couldn't charge. Turn 3 the jacks that didn't run the previous turn were able to charge. The cipher used flare on the sentry shot to help the charging jacks hit since they went before Locke. And this was against man of wars so not too hard to hit against this particular matchup. Conservators can get up to pow 19 most of the time so I think the list would hit hard enough when you factor in the axiom as well.
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Post by smartalek on Jul 3, 2018 20:59:38 GMT
I ran the list below at a local Steamroller last weekend, paired with a Lucant CWL list, and won both games I used Locke. The first was into Iron Mother where I won by scenario (on Mirage). This is a pretty bad matchup, but playable due to shield guards and camping enough focus to not die to backlash. The second win was into Ossyan where I was able to charge a Redlined, angry Conservator into him after feating away his Admonition. conflictchamber.com/#cc201b_-0ilIdndndBd4d9d6dbdCdCdedfdgdgdzConvergence Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Destruction Initiative !!! Your army contains a pre-release entry. [Locke 1] Aurum Lucanum Athanor Locke [+29] - Conservator [12] - Conservator [12] - Corollary [6] - Diffuser [6] - Inverter [15] - Mitigator [7] - Prime Axiom [38] Algorithmic Dispersion Optifex [2] Algorithmic Dispersion Optifex [2] Attunement Servitors [0(4)] Elimination Servitors [0(3)] Reflex Servitors [0(4)] Reflex Servitors [0(4)] Optifex Directive [4] While I kept an eye out for run > jackhammer opportunities, they never came up. It was nice to have jackhammer as a backup in case a jack didn't end up killing their intended target, but between HoV/Flares/Sustained Attack/Macropummeler/Quake I never had an issue hitting before activating Locke. In the games I only got 1 sentry shot, which was from the Mitigator and it didn't do much. Road to War on the other hand was clutch. It got jacks into charge ranges, and move jacks back into induction range. The feat only ever generated 1 catalytic token since my opponent decided to not use his focus on his jacks, and cast spells while outside of Lockes control. I do really like the purification part of her feat though, which let me remove Admonition from my opponent's caster and won me the game.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Jul 5, 2018 17:44:33 GMT
Interesting contrast between the reports from both of you. Which is a good thing: Different metas, play styles, opponents etc.
But both not impressed by the feat. Yeah you got rid of Admonition, but I think that is more cornercase than actual useability. There are several other ways around that spell, like knockdown, run drones behind to prevent space to move, trigger it then Road to War back into melee range and cast Jackhammer. Options are there. (Note you didn't play Locke against Hordes, just fyi)
How did the Axiom perform?
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