|
Post by apoc2148 on May 25, 2018 18:06:24 GMT
So I have played Barny2 quite a bit. I find there are certain models you really need in order to make his list work. Those would be: Must Haves: - Wrong Eye & Snap Jaw (I literally wouldnt take B2 without them) - Boneswarm for its animus - Spirit Cauldron (to fill B2 and the Boneswarms/Bokor, puppet master later on) I agree with the Spirit cauldron, that absolutely is a must have for all the reasons you listed. It is almost a toss up between Wrong eye & Snapjaw and a Sac vault to me. Both are the same points, Wrongeye brings star crossed in a 8"+base size circle around Barnabus, couple with EoBN makes life exceeding hard for your opponent. He also brings another heavy that doesn't tax Barnabus, but can't heal it with his feat. The Sac Vault brings spell denial, 1 hp infantry denial, a good gun and a huge base to hide Barnabus. I may have to try running one list with a sac vault, then swap it for WE&SJ and see how the two differ.
Swarm vs Spiny growth. I guess it comes down to whether or not you want your opponent to have to boost to hit, or boost damage. Swarm providing concealment and -2 to hit for living enemies brings eBarnabus up to def 15, pretty good for a large based model which many things will be able to draw clear LOS. Spiny growth on the other hand brings eBarnabus up to arm 20, which nullifies most damage from shots under pow 14. No quetsion that swarm+EoBN+star crossed means that Barnabus will be nigh untouchable in melee. Nice to Have: - Soul Slave (keeps him at 7 fury every turn) - Bokor for feat target - Something to arc rebuke/hunters mark through (either a blindwalker or bone shrine) I will say that the soul slave is more than just an upkeep bot. It can also hand out a free hunter's mark each turn and can cast a fully boosted blood rain. That coupled with either a boneshrine or blindwalker can really help keep Barnabus safer while still getting out the spells he needs too. Just from playing him I find Blindwater for my playstyle suits him better. I can get all the stuff I want for him in that list (support, feat target, etc). The way I play him is very close to the front leveraging some gators as "lead blockers" to help give the illusion that there is a good assassination run on the table. I use long chops to drop traps in front of him to help make sure he doesnt get swarmed with infantry. I really like the Blindwalker with him because with Rage and the boneshakers he can still get to pow 19 and it allows him to arc spells through without putting him in unwanted danger. I have tried many builds and (for me) this one just plays the best. The only thing I might do is drop either the soul slave or long chops for a Witch Doctor for ghostly on B2. Here it is: Minions - BloB Blindwater 75pts Theme: The Blindwater Congregation 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Barnabas, Lord of Blood - WB: +23 - Barnabas, Lord of Blood (Cont.) - Gatorman Soul Slave - PC: 0 - Blackhide Wrastler - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16) - Blind Walker - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Boneswarm - PC: 7 Wrong Eye - Wrong Eye & Snapjaw: 17 - Snapjaw Swamp Gobber Chef - PC: 1 Longchops - PC: 0 Gatorman Bokor & Bog Trog Swamp Shamblers - Bokor & 9 Grunts: 10 Gatorman Posse (Blindwater) - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 Gatorman Posse (Blindwater) - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 Boil Master & Spirit Cauldron - Boil Master & Spirit Cauldron: 5 I agree that Blindwater is probably the way to go for his builds. It just offers everything he wants in terms of model selection, and adds on the fact that GMP get hardier and you get +2" of deployment. My only hesitation about the blindwalker is its low mat. With the fact that Barnabus can't do anything to decreased defense or increase mat, the Blindwalker would have to boost to hit anything above def 12. In comparison, the boneswarm is mat 6 and can get up to pow 20 with a full corpse load, rage and dark shroud and costs 3 less. Plenty to buy a bone shrine and 1 point of something (void leech maybe?).
Thanks for the input!
|
|
|
Post by apoc2148 on May 25, 2018 18:34:11 GMT
And still we wait with bated breath . . .
|
|
|
Post by ghoulio on May 25, 2018 18:59:26 GMT
I agree with the Spirit cauldron, that absolutely is a must have for all the reasons you listed. It is almost a toss up between Wrong eye & Snapjaw and a Sac vault to me. Both are the same points, Wrongeye brings star crossed in a 8"+base size circle around Barnabus, couple with EoBN makes life exceeding hard for your opponent. He also brings another heavy that doesn't tax Barnabus, but can't heal it with his feat. The Sac Vault brings spell denial, 1 hp infantry denial, a good gun and a huge base to hide Barnabus. I may have to try running one list with a sac vault, then swap it for WE&SJ and see how the two differ.
The thing I look at when thinking of which one is more valuable to take is just looking at Barnabas' kit and what he does. Everything he has pushes him to be a front line caster. If he isnt personally in the front of your army killing high priority targets then I feel you should probably be playing a different caster. With that in mind you need to make him as survivable as possible which means focusing on what he does best...defense skew. It's why I typically go for Swarm over Spiney Growth as you will be casting EoDN every turn and combining it with swarm for a tastey DEF 17. Then you throw on Star Crossed and all your Gators are DEF 14 with Star Crossed. I also like to mix the Boneswarm in with my second unit of gators to spread Swarm around as much as possible bringing the gators up to DEF 16. I get what you are saying about the Vault, but in all my games the single most important piece in my entire army outside of Barnabas himself has been Wrong Eye. Without Star Crossed his def skew really isnt that big of a deal...but with it you will have the joy of watching someone throw a few heavy beasts at B2 and not kill him. The vault is good...I just don't personally find it does much for B2, especially for it being 17pts.
For my first 10 games or so I had both a Boneswarm and a Snapper. I cant stand the snapper as a beast as he doesnt really do anything. Spiney growth is really nice...just those points can be used in other places. My list is a living army drop as any time I have dropped it (regardless of spiney or not) into something like Cryx or jack heavy it really doesnt do much. This one I think is 100% personal preference though and neither animi are a "wrong" choice as its just based on what are you looking to drop Barnabas into.
There are a few reasons why I have a Blindwalker over a second boneswarm. First is I needed an arc node. Barnabas has a standard charge range of 8" + 2" melee...which is the exact range of hunters mark...but if he can land hunters mark through an arc node it gives him a 12" total threat range which is very important. Sure you can try to do it with the soul slave but i find he is almost never 2" in front of Barnabas as I lead my army with the big man. Also being able to apply Rebuke on a unit without forcing Barnabas into a poor position is huge. Secondly he another really good transfer target with almost 30 hit boxes plus he is only 10 points, so you dont really care what he does. Since switching to the Blindwalker with B2 I dont know if i could give him up.
With all that being said I dont really feel I have "solved" B2, the list I posted is just the best I have done. I like having these types of posts as you can talk and see other people's point of views to maybe get a different idea on how to run him. Looking forward to seeing more input
|
|
|
Post by apoc2148 on May 25, 2018 19:47:47 GMT
ghoulio: All valid points, I have yet to actually get B2 on the table (apart from my painting table) so it will be interesting to see if I end up coming to the same conclusion as you did after I get some games under my belt with him.
|
|
walden
Junior Strategist
Posts: 136
|
Post by walden on May 25, 2018 20:43:06 GMT
My 2c. I've played about a dozen games with him. Dahlia is fantastic under EoBN. Wrong eye and snapjaw are an auto include for me. Orin has been extremely reliable, infantry load out doesn't really matter. Spirit couldron is an auto include. I always include one or two boneswarms. With all the def stacking they become extremely difficult to remove. Valkyries are very reliable in my experience, as having def 15, arm 17 shield guards is useful.
I always take a Snapper, full him with fury, then feat on him for 3 fury.
I'm at work. I can elaborate more. Later if anybody wants to tweak my mind.
|
|
walden
Junior Strategist
Posts: 136
|
Post by walden on May 25, 2018 20:52:31 GMT
My 2c. I've played about a dozen games with him. Dahlia is fantastic under EoBN. Wrong eye and snapjaw are an auto include for me. Orin has been extremely reliable, infantry load out doesn't really matter. Spirit couldron is an auto include. I always include one or two boneswarms. With all the def stacking they become extremely difficult to remove. Valkyries are very reliable in my experience, as having def 15, arm 17 shield guards is useful. I always take a Snapper, full him with fury, then feat on him for 3 fury. I'm at work. I can elaborate more. Later if anybody wants to tweak my mind. For reference this is what I've been running. Sometimes I swap the Valkyries for Nyss. But usually I find shield guards are more useful and they attrition better. Your opponent will just hate gremlin swarms under EoBN. War Room Army Minions - blood lord Theme: Will Work For Food 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Barnabas, Lord of Blood - WB: +23 - Barnabas, Lord of Blood (Cont.) - Gatorman Soul Slave - PC: 0 - Boneswarm - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Bull Snapper - PC: 5 (Battlegroup Points Used: 5) - Blackhide Wrastler - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11) - Boneswarm - PC: 7 Wrong Eye - Wrong Eye & Snapjaw: 17 - Snapjaw Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor - PC: 0 Gremlin Swarm - PC: 3 Dahlia Hallyr - Hallyr & Skarath: 17 - Skarath Bone Shrine - PC: 2 Gremlin Swarm - PC: 3 Boil Master & Spirit Cauldron - Boil Master & Spirit Cauldron: 5 Farrow Valkyries - Leader & 2 Grunts: 8 Farrow Valkyries - Leader & 2 Grunts: 8 THEME: Will Work For Food --- GENERATED : 05/25/2018 13:51:13 BUILD ID : 2066.18-05-11
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 25, 2018 21:16:30 GMT
Lesser Warlocks:
Wrong Eye and Snapjaw: A useful heavy that can benefit from Hunter’s mark, onslaught, and EoBN. Double dipped defenses with Star-crossed and EoBN will make Barnabus incredibly hard to kill in melee.
Rosch & Brine: Enjoys the extra range from Hunter’s mark and pathfinder from onslaught. Can open up some farrow beasts into the lists, battle boar for primal would be an ideal option but not required. Only able to be taken out of theme or in Will Work for Food.
Dahila & Skarath: Only able to be taken out of theme or in Will Work for Food. Haunting melody can help keep infantry at bay late game, between it and Rebuke enemy infantry should be relatively neutered for the game. Enjoys the extra range from Hunter’s mark and pathfinder from onslaught.
Brun & Lug: Only able to be taken out of theme or in Will Work for Food. Enjoys the extra range from Hunter’s mark. Dahlia will work in Blindwater
|
|
|
Post by apoc2148 on May 29, 2018 12:31:14 GMT
Lesser Warlocks:
Wrong Eye and Snapjaw: A useful heavy that can benefit from Hunter’s mark, onslaught, and EoBN. Double dipped defenses with Star-crossed and EoBN will make Barnabus incredibly hard to kill in melee.
Rosch & Brine: Enjoys the extra range from Hunter’s mark and pathfinder from onslaught. Can open up some farrow beasts into the lists, battle boar for primal would be an ideal option but not required. Only able to be taken out of theme or in Will Work for Food.
Dahila & Skarath: Only able to be taken out of theme or in Will Work for Food. Haunting melody can help keep infantry at bay late game, between it and Rebuke enemy infantry should be relatively neutered for the game. Enjoys the extra range from Hunter’s mark and pathfinder from onslaught.
Brun & Lug: Only able to be taken out of theme or in Will Work for Food. Enjoys the extra range from Hunter’s mark. Dahlia will work in Blindwater Updated the blurb about lesser warlocks. Thanks!
|
|
|
Post by apoc2148 on May 29, 2018 12:33:34 GMT
For reference this is what I've been running. Sometimes I swap the Valkyries for Nyss. But usually I find shield guards are more useful and they attrition better. Your opponent will just hate gremlin swarms under EoBN. War Room Army Minions - blood lord Theme: Will Work For Food 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Barnabas, Lord of Blood - WB: +23 - Barnabas, Lord of Blood (Cont.) - Gatorman Soul Slave - PC: 0 - Boneswarm - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Bull Snapper - PC: 5 (Battlegroup Points Used: 5) - Blackhide Wrastler - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11) - Boneswarm - PC: 7 Wrong Eye - Wrong Eye & Snapjaw: 17 - Snapjaw Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor - PC: 0 Gremlin Swarm - PC: 3 Dahlia Hallyr - Hallyr & Skarath: 17 - Skarath Bone Shrine - PC: 2 Gremlin Swarm - PC: 3 Boil Master & Spirit Cauldron - Boil Master & Spirit Cauldron: 5 Farrow Valkyries - Leader & 2 Grunts: 8 Farrow Valkyries - Leader & 2 Grunts: 8 THEME: Will Work For Food --- GENERATED : 05/25/2018 13:51:13 BUILD ID : 2066.18-05-11 How do you generally unbox this list with scenario in mind? I've been having issues using a list that doesn't include at least one unit to act as speed bump.
|
|
|
Post by ghoulio on May 29, 2018 15:13:15 GMT
How do you generally unbox this list with scenario in mind? I've been having issues using a list that doesn't include at least one unit to act as speed bump.
One combo that has been working for me (with Sturm & Drang mind you) is using Kwaak and Skarath. Basically what I do in the S&D list is throw counter blast up on Skarath and then Enliven and Vision (so Skarath can ignore the free strike on enliven). What is really funny with this combo is if its a living model attacking Skarath will just paralyze it going into your turn (so def 5) and the attacking model will do very little back. With Barny2 it will work just as well as you can do the same thing, but just have Skarath within Barny2's aura and Star Crossed. Minimum DEF 16 with Star Crossed and steady is super hard to deal with and if you do manage to hit it, then the snake just walks away. Another really good model to act as "lead blockers" are Iron Back Spitters as you can do the exact same thing since they have Carapace. The more I use Kwaak the more essential I find him.
The only question I have for the WWFF list is...what do you feat on? It's a cool list but you have given up your feat unless you want to sacrifice some really important pieces to your army. From my experience if you want to run WWFF you need to take either some bone grinders (honestly not a bad option regardless as it gets your hunters mark/rebuke to 12" range) and/or River Raiders (which can be a free solo option).
|
|
|
Post by apoc2148 on May 29, 2018 15:43:50 GMT
The only question I have for the WWFF list is...what do you feat on? It's a cool list but you have given up your feat unless you want to sacrifice some really important pieces to your army. From my experience if you want to run WWFF you need to take either some bone grinders (honestly not a bad option regardless as it gets your hunters mark/rebuke to 12" range) and/or River Raiders (which can be a free solo option).
Honestly this has been the biggest issue I've had trying to build a WWFF list with B2. Each list I posted has bone grinders in them as feat targets which are fine models to sac. Nyss hunters and boomhowlers and Valkyries have too much value on the table to just rfp them for a couple fury/corpses/heals. And since the only points used to gain free models are from beasts, it generally seems like units aren't taken often. So you sacrifice freebie models to put more units in a WWFF list or just run in Blindwater.
Walden mentioned about sac-ing beasts, which can work in a pinch but you won't get to reave the fury since they get removed from play.
|
|
|
Post by ghoulio on May 29, 2018 16:03:22 GMT
The only question I have for the WWFF list is...what do you feat on? It's a cool list but you have given up your feat unless you want to sacrifice some really important pieces to your army. From my experience if you want to run WWFF you need to take either some bone grinders (honestly not a bad option regardless as it gets your hunters mark/rebuke to 12" range) and/or River Raiders (which can be a free solo option).
Honestly this has been the biggest issue I've had trying to build a WWFF list with B2. Each list I posted has bone grinders in them as feat targets which are fine models to sac. Nyss hunters and boomhowlers and Valkyries have too much value on the table to just rfp them for a couple fury/corpses/heals. And since the only points used to gain free models are from beasts, it generally seems like units aren't taken often. So you sacrifice freebie models to put more units in a WWFF list or just run in Blindwater.
Walden mentioned about sac-ing beasts, which can work in a pinch but you won't get to reave the fury since they get removed from play.
That has been my main issue as well. As I mentioned above for me the River Raiders seem to be one of the best choices. You pick one as a free option and then pay for the other and you get 6 models to feat on for 4pts. This issue, despite all the benefits WWFF gives the BLoB is the main reason I just go Blindwater. Those Shamblers are just perfect for his feat. Typically I will feat a bunch away, do my dirty Barnabas business, then by turn 3-4 (feeding them corpses with the pot) they are at least back to full strength and contributing.
|
|
|
Post by chocobsessed on May 29, 2018 17:42:14 GMT
Use warbeasts as feat targets, especially in WWFF. Until they fix the mordikaar essence blast loophole, you're allowed to reave from battlegroup models that you RFP with the feat.
So, you can send in a boneswarm, make 4 pow 18~ish attacks, then eat it for 4 fury.
That changed in mk3 and is no longer true. You absolutely can reave from warbeasts that are removed from play, you just can't reave from warbeasts killed by a friendly attack. Since the feat isn't an attack and it RFPs, you're allowed to reave. It's the same ruling that allows mordikaar to reave off of warbeasts he essence blasts with.
|
|
|
Post by apoc2148 on May 29, 2018 19:26:59 GMT
Use warbeasts as feat targets, especially in WWFF. Until they fix the mordikaar essence blast loophole, you're allowed to reave from battlegroup models that you RFP with the feat. So, you can send in a boneswarm, make 4 pow 18~ish attacks, then eat it for 4 fury. That changed in mk3 and is no longer true. You absolutely can reave from warbeasts that are removed from play, you just can't reave from warbeasts killed by a friendly attack. Since the feat isn't an attack and it RFPs, you're allowed to reave. It's the same ruling that allows mordikaar to reave off of warbeasts he essence blasts with. I do seem to recall the mordikaar ruling, just completely forgot about it since our local Skorne player has since sold off his army. While that will be a easy way to get B2 filled up on fury, it still limits the amount of bodies he has for corpses (if the cauldron hasn't filled him) and healing his BG.
|
|
walden
Junior Strategist
Posts: 136
|
Post by walden on May 30, 2018 0:14:59 GMT
For reference this is what I've been running. Sometimes I swap the Valkyries for Nyss. But usually I find shield guards are more useful and they attrition better. Your opponent will just hate gremlin swarms under EoBN. War Room Army Minions - blood lord Theme: Will Work For Food 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Barnabas, Lord of Blood - WB: +23 - Barnabas, Lord of Blood (Cont.) - Gatorman Soul Slave - PC: 0 - Boneswarm - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Bull Snapper - PC: 5 (Battlegroup Points Used: 5) - Blackhide Wrastler - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11) - Boneswarm - PC: 7 Wrong Eye - Wrong Eye & Snapjaw: 17 - Snapjaw Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor - PC: 0 Gremlin Swarm - PC: 3 Dahlia Hallyr - Hallyr & Skarath: 17 - Skarath Bone Shrine - PC: 2 Gremlin Swarm - PC: 3 Boil Master & Spirit Cauldron - Boil Master & Spirit Cauldron: 5 Farrow Valkyries - Leader & 2 Grunts: 8 Farrow Valkyries - Leader & 2 Grunts: 8 THEME: Will Work For Food --- GENERATED : 05/25/2018 13:51:13 BUILD ID : 2066.18-05-11 How do you generally unbox this list with scenario in mind? I've been having issues using a list that doesn't include at least one unit to act as speed bump. You speedbump with your cheap beasts and skarath while yon project and bully them with Barnabas2. Not much can kill him, so you can abuse his positioning. I actually win on scenario with him using this list, as you can contest with the swarms long enough to get the rest of your force entrenched and at that point its. Near impossible to remove your stuff.
|
|