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Post by jisidro on May 23, 2018 12:48:28 GMT
The artificer will be added to legions... Not thrilled about an a unit with 2 internal arm buffs, force barrier, vengeance and pow 12 WM... But we'll see how it shapes up. The themes are very limited ATM. The blast immunity is kinda moot as they have high armour anyway, def 12 to 14 is good, but at the moment the artificer cannot be taken for free (not a small base) and does not count towards free points. And even if they do change the theme so medium bases can be taken for free, there is still an opportunity cost there Shouldn't everything have a real opportunity cost? It's a 5pt(?) solo, it eats some of your non-bg points after you get the 3 solos... besides, there is a lot of precedence for including him in the free options or as a source of free points.
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Post by Gaston on May 23, 2018 13:14:50 GMT
If it is target model/unit than you can put Force Barrier on jacks as well.
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Post by oncomingstorm on May 23, 2018 14:12:35 GMT
If it is target model/unit than you can put Force Barrier on jacks as well. you could already do this. You could also get multiple jacks with a single cast, plus your warcaster and some support if you were so inclined. Y'all need to stop kneejerking. This is a good change, but it's not a capability the artificier didn't have access to before. The ability to access him in more themes is by far the more exciting part.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on May 23, 2018 14:15:30 GMT
Also can someone please fix the spelling in the title of this thread
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Post by oncomingstorm on May 23, 2018 14:20:33 GMT
Also can someone please fix the spelling in the title of this thread Pretty sure that's actually one of the spoilers. The faction's name is changing to the "Reteibution of Scryah"
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Post by HubertJFarnsworth on May 23, 2018 15:13:13 GMT
Going from a bubble to a target is definitely a sideways move, it gives you less ability to cover a blob of support staff and a caster but now he'll actually be able to cover an entire 10-man unit with it. This is pretty cool for Legions of Dawn IMO.
Also, as always with CID, these are initial rules. There will be plenty of time to test and see if they're a problem and make changes. No need to get too negative about them when we're still 4 weeks away from the CID even starting.
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Post by deathbymelancholy on May 23, 2018 17:01:41 GMT
Also, as always with CID, these are initial rules. There will be plenty of time to test and see if they're a problem and make changes. No need to get too negative about them when we're still 4 weeks away from the CID even starting. Turn in your internet card, you obviously don't know how this works.
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Post by psycomonky on May 23, 2018 18:52:57 GMT
The blast immunity is kinda moot as they have high armour anyway, def 12 to 14 is good, but at the moment the artificer cannot be taken for free (not a small base) and does not count towards free points. And even if they do change the theme so medium bases can be taken for free, there is still an opportunity cost there Shouldn't everything have a real opportunity cost? It's a 5pt(?) solo, it eats some of your non-bg points after you get the 3 solos... besides, there is a lot of precedence for including him in the free options or as a source of free points. Well, consider that it is a 18-22 pt unit that has base stats of 12/15 speed 5 and mele only. Generally everything has an opportunity cost of what you didn't buy. For most solos in most themes the opportunity cost is which solos you want for free as many are just over costed as it is.
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Post by CaptCommy on May 23, 2018 22:12:08 GMT
Going from a bubble to a target is definitely a sideways move, it gives you less ability to cover a blob of support staff and a caster but now he'll actually be able to cover an entire 10-man unit with it. This is pretty cool for Legions of Dawn IMO. Also, as always with CID, these are initial rules. There will be plenty of time to test and see if they're a problem and make changes. No need to get too negative about them when we're still 4 weeks away from the CID even starting. It's a sideways move for the Artificer, but almost a straight downgrade for the Battle Mages. Set Defense and -1 pt cost doesn't really do much to offset their new reliance on a 5pt solo to stop them from being victimized by basically any gun in the game. 13/12 is a real bad place to be.
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Post by jisidro on May 24, 2018 7:54:55 GMT
Shouldn't everything have a real opportunity cost? It's a 5pt(?) solo, it eats some of your non-bg points after you get the 3 solos... besides, there is a lot of precedence for including him in the free options or as a source of free points. Well, consider that it is a 18-22 pt unit that has base stats of 12/15 speed 5 and mele only. Generally everything has an opportunity cost of what you didn't buy. For most solos in most themes the opportunity cost is which solos you want for free as many are just over costed as it is. It's also mat 7, pow 12 WM with vengeance, the +2 ARM thing and Iron Zeal... Not as "slow" as Spd 5 would indicate and those victim stats are usually not victim stats at all. The opportunity cost in LoD is on the rifle dudes...
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Post by droopingpuppy on May 25, 2018 8:09:59 GMT
The following CID changes were mentioned on today’s Weekly rumble: Artificer: Can be taken in Legions of Dawn. His ability that gives Force barrier to models within 3” will change so that he instead gives Force barrier to a target model/unit. That weakens its power in jack-heavy Forges lists but provides some nice shooting protection to Dawnguard, DEF 14 Sentinels are a lot more survivable vs guns than DEF 12 ones. Battle Mages: Lose Force Barrier and gain Set Defense instead. Go down to 9 points. Most things would be makes Retribution bad, I think. Unit wide Force Barrier buff seems good, for units are no longer need to be stick together within 3" of him, but I think that they need the buffs for jack. 12/18 heavies are really need for the protection desperately. Even consider Shyeel warjacks has more damage box by force field and their SPD 6, the defensive stat is somewhat lacking for a heavy and they should enjoy some other protective method. It would be a boon, but also can be a flaw. And what the hell? Battle Mages lose Force Barrier, and it is replaced by Set Defense? That's nonsense. What's the point on it? They are good, but not broken enough to be nerfed that much.
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Post by belgambit on May 25, 2018 14:00:50 GMT
Now, to be fair, we are seeing these 2 changes in a complete vacuum. What if the Magister now gets Veteran Leader: Force Barrier? Encourages the use of the Magister (a 4pt solo) instead of using the Artificer for support. Still not great, but 13 pts for essentially a 7 man unit of Battle Mages with Set Defense AND Force Barrier? Maybe worth it.
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Post by HubertJFarnsworth on May 25, 2018 14:37:32 GMT
Also important to remember is that in Forges of War (currently, obviously this might change) Magisters and Artificers are the only non-Arcanist/attachment solos available anyway. I don't know about anyone else but I always end up with a couple anyway.
@droppingpuppy
I don't think there's anything wrong with the defensive stats on Ret jacks. Shyeel are pretty much par for the course for SPD6 heavies and Vyre jacks are also pretty much standard for SPD5 heavies. If they need any changes they're probably more offensive, and primarily focused on the underplayed jacks like the Daemon and maybe Hydra rather than any blanket changes.
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Post by psycomonky on May 25, 2018 17:08:40 GMT
Also important to remember is that in Forges of War (currently, obviously this might change) Magisters and Artificers are the only non-Arcanist/attachment solos available anyway. I don't know about anyone else but I always end up with a couple anyway. @droppingpuppy I don't think there's anything wrong with the defensive stats on Ret jacks. Shyeel are pretty much par for the course for SPD6 heavies and Vyre jacks are also pretty much standard for SPD5 heavies. If they need any changes they're probably more offensive, and primarily focused on the underplayed jacks like the Daemon and maybe Hydra rather than any blanket changes. Personally I'd rather just drop the point costs across the board on ret jacks. But ya, daemon and hydra are the two that need the most help. Also the Gorgon, poor guy. It almost looks decent but then isnt.
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Post by HubertJFarnsworth on May 25, 2018 20:27:57 GMT
I'm going to be entirely honest, I never remember that the Gorgon exists. I don't even see it in War Room anymore, my eyes just sliiiiide past it.
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