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Post by Kriegsspiele on Apr 6, 2017 14:50:17 GMT
Enjoy another fresh batrep with our new shiny against another new shiny - and an old nemesis: |
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Post by kovnikninehouse on Apr 6, 2017 15:17:26 GMT
Awesome I played Strak2 into RET last Friday and he is awesome. I made one misplay and lost on assassination on his very last possibly on that turn but I had out attritioned him big time.
I will be playing him again this Friday and I do believe he favorers the Ulhans with quicken they are monsters with him
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Post by auraco on Apr 6, 2017 15:23:46 GMT
Do you think an all melee list like that will hold up to all the board control Haley2 brings to the table, it's one thing to be able to survive to a gunline, it's a different thing to be able to survive against the best control warcaster in the game.
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Post by Kriegsspiele on Apr 6, 2017 16:21:12 GMT
kovnikninehouse, my last game at the tourney was against Issyria - and it was indeed awesome. The Uhlans are stupidly good, especially in this matchup because Ret isn't outthreatening you this way. auraco, I'm not sure because I haven't played it yet. But I'm definitely going to test it - and I don't think it's impossible.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Apr 6, 2017 16:41:44 GMT
I played the fang theme with Z1 into H2 heavy metal. In the end Z1 was left all alone and dealt last few boxes on a heavily damaged Stormwall to score for the win. H2 feat definitely isn't pretty for fangs.
Though list is really good at pushing forward and surviving leaps even by itself (at least under H2 with no +dice feat). Would be even better under Strakhov2 since Z1 doesn't help much against H2 feat while Stakhov can counter feat.
I think having caster that's hard to kill with shooting like Z2 or Stakhov2 is the most important thing in the Cygnar matchup. The rest of the list can manage. This is why I like less the idea of Irusks or Kozlov with the list.
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Post by sand20go on Apr 6, 2017 16:42:47 GMT
kovnikninehouse , my last game at the tourney was against Issyria - and it was indeed awesome. The Uhlans are stupidly good, especially in this matchup because Ret isn't outthreatening you this way. auraco , I'm not sure because I haven't played it yet. But I'm definitely going to test it - and I don't think it's impossible. I haven't played it but I would think that with I.R. you have a tool (along with the fangs) to make things problematic for how cygnar usually makes that match up work - killing crap with POW 10 leaps. When you are rolling 30 of them odds suggest that you will get enough at Dice-8 to kill off some stuff. Add Laddermore and now those leaps are at dice -6 into the Shield wall. LOTS of things are dying. But when they need dice minus 10 (or on feat dice minus 13) it becomes a serious problem for them EVEN if you are having your stuff slowed down and TK'ed and moved all over the place. I think it is a grind but I think he gets it done. Guess? You move up in shield wall with Inviolable Resolve on the IF unit that is the most "exposed" and then Quicken on the unit that can potentially benefit from terrain. Not sure about mini-feats. She then feats and kills stuff You counter feat and hopefully trigger both mini feats for your fangs. The Red Fangs can get up the board with 6+6 or 8+8 to tie up a bunch of crap. The Black Fangs get up to ARM 24. Everything in the bubble is tough. Depending on situation, Stark goes stealth so he can't get shot at. Also note, her feat only applies to models "during their activation". That means your counter charge game still very much in play. PROBABLY won't matter but could - making it that much harder for her to get work down with the Lances charging into the line of pikes or Thorn getting way up close. On the latter precision strike for the WIN!!!! It seems a VERY strong Cygnar drop. I am interested to see how it plays into Nemo3 though - because with Laddemore AND a Firefy(ies) and the Feat he should be able to chew through even the armor skew. To me that is the threat from Swans that concerns me (though it should be absolutely noted that with Quicken on the Red Fangs you have a RIDICULOUSLY long capacity to go tie shit down. Seriously, is 8+8+2 the longest in the game for stuff that will be ARM 18 (or ARM 21+ Tough?) |
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Post by auraco on Apr 6, 2017 19:04:04 GMT
Sand, the reposition on the red fang minifeat is only 5'' regardless of their speed now. That changed in the mk3 transition.
You are right that the feat doesn't affect the countercharges so that is still up during the feat turn which is good. Against this match up Markov probably has a big neon sign over his head saying "Kill Me" to the Haley player, so he has to watch ou for the big guns on the other side of the table.
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Post by sand20go on Apr 6, 2017 20:52:24 GMT
Sand, the reposition on the red fang minifeat is only 5'' regardless of their speed now. That changed in the mk3 transition. You are right that the feat doesn't affect the countercharges so that is still up during the feat turn which is good. Against this match up Markov probably has a big neon sign over his head saying "Kill Me" to the Haley player, so he has to watch ou for the big guns on the other side of the table. Well phoey on me for missing that since I haven't played with Red Fangs at ALL in this version ;-) 13 inch aint "bad" but it ain't 16 ;-) |
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Post by Kriegsspiele on Apr 7, 2017 5:59:53 GMT
I agree, smoothcriminal, but I still think the very best way to fight Cygnar is playing loooots of jacks under H1 or K1. I need some games against Sloan, Haley2, Haley3 first before I switch to SK2. You're absolutely right sand20go, Cygnar hates the ARM stacking game generally. That's why 7 Khador heavies are such a massive problem for them - especially with H1's feat once.  auraco, Markov indeed needs LOS protection - using the Kodiaks if necessary - when going against shooty armies! |
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Post by borderprince on Apr 7, 2017 17:32:01 GMT
It seems a VERY strong Cygnar drop. I am interested to see how it plays into Nemo3 though - because with Laddemore AND a Firefy(ies) and the Feat he should be able to chew through even the armor skew. To me that is the threat from Swans that concerns me Me too. I think Nemo3 is a good Cygnar counter to LoS, with the possible exception of Zerkova1 using clouds to reduce the shooting (there's an idea - fixed lists with ADR for the casters). But I think it is probably possible to produce a 2 list pairing with LoS where the other list is not a terrible Cygnar drop (especially Nemo3). A non-theme Cygnar focused list would obviously work, but perhaps Jaws of the Wolf - lots of jacks mixed with a smattering of stealth infantry to taste? There's a tendency to think of Cygnar as largely ignoring stealth, but that often isn't true now that Gun Mages are much less popular. Electo-leap does ignore stealth, but that requires the first shot/attack to hit something, which stealth messes with. There are ways around it, such as shooting jacks or friendly lightning-immune models with the main attack, but that drops the volume of damaging attacks quite significantly, as only the leaps themselves go into the infantry. |
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Post by Aegis on Apr 7, 2017 18:32:08 GMT
When you are rolling 30 of them odds suggest that you will get enough at Dice-8 to kill off some stuff. Add Laddermore and now those leaps are at dice -6 into the Shield wall. LOTS of things are dying. I would point out that Laddermore's buff doesn't affect E-Leaps since they are not ranged attacks. |
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Apr 9, 2017 0:37:15 GMT
Krieg,
I loved your battle report! OMG thank you. I had never thought about defeating (defying!) template hazards by "sliding" my shield walled units through each other. Wow. Holy cow. Thank you.
So, my main questions to you are list composition, and list pairing.
On list composition, what are you considering differently. Also, do you think this is good, bad or meh?
War Room Army
Khador - Strakhov 2 Legion of Steel
Theme: Legion of Steel
3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Assault Kommander Strakhov & Kommandos - WJ: +22
- Assault Kommander Strakhov & Kommandos (Cont.)
- Conquest - PC: 37 (Battlegroup Points Used: 22)
Iron Fang Kovnik - PC: 0
Uhlan Kovnik Markov - PC: 7
Iron Fang Uhlans - Leader & 2 Grunts: 12
Black Dragons - Leader & 9 Grunts: 17
- Black Dragon Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 0
Iron Fang Pikemen - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15
- Iron Fang Pikemen Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 0
Great Bears of the Gallowswood - Volkov, Kolsk, & Yarovich: 9
I give up your 2 Kodiaks, the dog, and a pair of Uhlans for the Conquest. The Conquest retains pathfinder, close to the same number of boxes, and is such a juicy juicy invol resolve target. And, the thing I'm finding the Iron Fang list lacks is guns. Conquest brings em, baby.
On pairings, if you adding Strak 2 into your rotation, what are you looking the other list to handle? I'm doing some long term thinking about Gen Con (in August). So... by that time OW 2 would be out and you could do ADR. My go to choice is Karchev in Jaws theme with a bunch of jacks.
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Post by skathrex on Apr 10, 2017 10:06:33 GMT
Well I thought about pairing as well. My thoughts atm are either Sk1, just for lolz and because well, we love him  Second more serious thought would be something to fight recursion and/ or controll. which brings me to Butcher3 out of theme for Orin (SK1 could do that maybe too against controll) |
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Post by Kriegsspiele on Apr 10, 2017 11:09:29 GMT
borderprince, I think Cygnar is in a making phase, even heavily. In my opinion Cygnar isn't a special problem for Khador anymore. Not even Haley2 - and regardless of the theme they are playing. Armchair Warrior, thank you, but the underlying work was done by someone else in MK2 who advised to charge minifeated Assassins through a Demolisher. I just adapted this idea - and in a world of Markov it's pretty doable. - Until now I haven't tested another build - and won't do so before I had at least 10 games. I'm 7:0 now - but I think there are some additional matchups I want to play before I start changing the list. Adding the Conquest is definitely a good idea because ARM 22 is a thing. skathrex, I'm thinking the same way (S1/B3 besides SK2). Buuut I think I'm going to test V1 WGK & SK2 LoS first. For the LOLs - but also because I really think it's a strong pair. V1 with 3x3 Rocketeers and the cheap Juggy-chassis deals with a wide range of lists, including the pirate boat. SK2 is also very usable in multiple ways.
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Post by skathrex on Apr 10, 2017 17:03:57 GMT
I know Vlad1 is good (also I would go 4x3 rockets), but I don't want to play the list. You are gonna leave a lot of salty opponents behind. I don't think that list is fun to play against
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