Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Mar 27, 2018 16:02:25 GMT
You can't complain about bad game design if you participated in that design and didn't catch the OP stuff yourself. Didn't catch, or didn't report it. Some people will intentionally not report something to keep it OP or don't report it out of sheer laziness and then are surprised when it made it though in its OP form.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Mar 27, 2018 16:13:57 GMT
I was intending to do some play testing, but life has gotten in the way of regular gaming for the past few weeks. However now I have some gaming time I don't feel inclined to play Crucible, they are not super interesting in the way that Grymkin were/are, and the prospect of having to buy potentially 3-4 Black Anchor huge bases to complete the faction is a massive turn off for starting to collect them
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Post by Charistoph on Mar 27, 2018 16:42:11 GMT
That's the thing though, there really is not enough time in these cycles to unlock the deeper casters (hence why Koldgrimma and Dreamer are so strong right now) and there is also not enough time to fix all the models in question. I wonder if the process would have been better served by releasing 1-2 Warcasters at first and running them through several weeks, then moving on to the others rather than plopping them all down. You can't complain about bad game design if you participated in that design and didn't catch the OP stuff yourself. Didn't catch, or didn't report it. Some people will intentionally not report something to keep it OP or don't report it out of sheer laziness and then are surprised when it made it though in its OP form. Yes, I often wonder about that. From someone who was IT for several locations, I cannot tell you how many times people kept complaining how nothing was getting fixed, but they would never call it in. Interestingly enough, most of the time I would visit most of them on a weekly basis and they would often wait for me to come in before reporting it. The problem was compounded when they forgot to tell me during a visit, or was unable to visit them for a while due to situations that cropped up preventing me from getting there for up to a month.
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Post by HubertJFarnsworth on Mar 27, 2018 20:58:15 GMT
That's the thing though, there really is not enough time in these cycles to unlock the deeper casters (hence why Koldgrimma and Dreamer are so strong right now) and there is also not enough time to fix all the models in question. I wonder if the process would have been better served by releasing 1-2 Warcasters at first and running them through several weeks, then moving on to the others rather than plopping them all down. Unfortunately I don't think that would work out. For the CG example imagine if the first two weeks were only Lukas and Syvestro; people would be complaining that CG lacks good frontline casters and would be clamoring to turn one of them into a frontline caster because they don't know what else is coming. If you tell them the concepts of what else is coming but not the rules people are going to keep trying to demand/guess/coerce rules for those models to shore up their personal bugaboo. IMO it seems like it'd be more trouble than it's worth but I could be wrong. As for this CID as a whole I think a lot of it is just that they're a bit conceptually stale. They don't bring any new mechanics, their aesthetic isn't particularly unique (honestly to me they look like Mercs for the most part), and they got absolutely no hype for the last six months. Grymkin got all those weird videos and image teasers and Convergence got a narrative league but all CG got was the reveal video and occasional pictures of models? Someone dropped the ball on marketing. But the fact of the matter is that CID is made up of veteran players, which is mostly good since you don't have to waste too much time with people who just don't know the rules. It's also inevitable because what new player is going to buy in to a game and immediately start playing unreleased playtest models? But CG were billed as a more straightforward (read, newbie-friendly) mini-faction in contrast to Convergence and Grymkin that both put a lot of effort into creating unique mechanics for veterans to sink their teeth in to. I think they were right to do that since the mini-factions are going to be more common now and you can't make them all newbie-adverse but it does risk the vets just not caring about the playtest as much. I am amazed that as of the time of writing there has been no rules update in over a week.
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Post by Charistoph on Mar 27, 2018 21:15:50 GMT
I wonder if the process would have been better served by releasing 1-2 Warcasters at first and running them through several weeks, then moving on to the others rather than plopping them all down. Unfortunately I don't think that would work out. For the CG example imagine if the first two weeks were only Lukas and Syvestro; people would be complaining that CG lacks good frontline casters and would be clamoring to turn one of them into a frontline caster because they don't know what else is coming. If you tell them the concepts of what else is coming but not the rules people are going to keep trying to demand/guess/coerce rules for those models to shore up their personal bugaboo. IMO it seems like it'd be more trouble than it's worth but I could be wrong. It largely depends on what the goal of the week's CID is. If it is to do the entire faction, that's putting a lot of weight on a month of gaming, especially if you make changes every week. Heck, PC gaming betas take months to work through stages (admittedly, it is easier to fix a bug in text then a program's process). It's harder to get a game on the TT then a PC, though, since you always need to have two people in close proximity to play a game. Hmm, speaking of that, is anyone using Vassal to do CID testing with? I agree with the Mercs perception. They have a strong Laellese/Ordic feel to them which has usually been limited to Mercs. It wouldn't have been to hard to Cephalyx the group, really, and I don't really understand why they went this route. They do more work with the Mercs then Cephayx, but they are the ones running around as their own faction.
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juckto
Junior Strategist
Posts: 124
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Post by juckto on Mar 27, 2018 21:21:57 GMT
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Post by macdaddy on Mar 27, 2018 22:08:19 GMT
Charistoph Most of my testing lately has been on vassal
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Post by mydnight on Mar 28, 2018 2:46:00 GMT
I agree with the Mercs perception. They have a strong Laellese/Ordic feel to them which has usually been limited to Mercs. It wouldn't have been to hard to Cephalyx the group, really, and I don't really understand why they went this route. They do more work with the Mercs then Cephayx, but they are the ones running around as their own faction. PP insists on releasing a new mini faction every year. Also, if there were in mercs, that would considerably bloat the merc release cycle, since PP considers mercs 1 faction and releases things for them at the same rate as other factions (i.e. having multiple subfactions in mercs is actually pretty painful especially for subfactions like cephalyx that don't have much options).
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Post by Azuresun on Mar 28, 2018 11:16:13 GMT
Let me say this one more time when it comes to BAHI. It's meant as a way for PP to help curb the price tag of the huge bases. ....for those in the US.
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Post by Trollock on Mar 28, 2018 12:32:19 GMT
Let me say this one more time when it comes to BAHI. It's meant as a way for PP to help curb the price tag of the huge bases. ....for those in the US. Yeah... For me who live in sweden, i have to pay roughly 2500 SEK (after toll charges) if i want a Hooch Hauler. If i go to my local store and buy a War Wagon, it costs me 665 SEK. Sure, the HHH is bigger and all that, but seriously?
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Post by HubertJFarnsworth on Mar 28, 2018 14:53:32 GMT
The Hooch Hauler is overpriced for everyone. Hopefully they've learned not to do anything that overdesigned again.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Mar 28, 2018 17:52:56 GMT
The Hooch Hauler is overpriced for everyone. Hopefully they've learned not to do anything that overdesigned again. Yeah, the employees I talked to were saying just this. They learned their lesson and it will *hopefully* not happen again.
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Post by gobber on Mar 29, 2018 0:17:08 GMT
Hooch Hauler is overpriced from the get go, but I really do hope they find a way to spin off a BAHI-europe or something of that sort to address the complaints of the international crowd. I'm unsure how they'd actually do that without doubling production costs and it still wouldn't fully solve the issue for all countries (I'd be surprised if there is any feasible solution for Australia); but I'm sure they've looked into something of the sort given the consistency of complaints from a significant subset of their customer base
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Post by killroundears on Mar 29, 2018 0:25:46 GMT
Hooch Hauler is overpriced from the get go, but I really do hope they find a way to spin off a BAHI-europe or something of that sort to address the complaints of the international crowd. I'm unsure how they'd actually do that without doubling production costs and it still wouldn't fully solve the issue for all countries (I'd be surprised if there is any feasible solution for Australia); but I'm sure they've looked into something of the sort given the consistency of complaints from a significant subset of their customer base I dropped my interest in cg massively when i realised what bahi was going to do to the prices
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Post by GrumpyBear on Mar 29, 2018 15:46:46 GMT
I know this is from a while ago, but Kolgrimma is a really good example of a caster who benefited from CID tremendously. In the current game her kit is regarded as deep, fun, and interesting, but when CID ended people thought she was just playable. When CID first started she was a very shallow boring caster, but during CID they added lots of little edge case abilities, and the final is much more then the parts. The fact she is in trolls adds even more, because she is unlike almost any other Troll caster. She adds so much to the faction without breaking any core game mechanics or having any directly overpowered abilities.
I believe she is a good example of how the CID can work and make a concept go from "Ok but uninteresting" to a star, without actually changing the theme of the model that much.
I think its important to remember this when looking at Crucible Casters. A caster with a couple strong points but also a lot of solid basics can end up being a true star in faction, despite not having an immediately obvious Overpowered ability. Guys like Lucent who have a bunch of really solid spells can end up much stronger then someone like Kara Sloan or Karchev who appear immediately overpowered but don't deliver that when played.
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