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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Apr 7, 2017 3:24:59 GMT
It has an 8" walking threat range... That is the same threat as a charging Jugg What are you Marshalling it? We have more casters WITH battlegroup wide speed enhancers then we don't.
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Post by Irusk2K on Apr 7, 2017 16:43:44 GMT
I play Ret with Impy and one thing my opponent has done that has worked is throwing Impy out of control range.
It will be really hard to get a good angle to toss directly away but if you stick a cheap warrior model, like a standard bearer, in LOS of your jack (even have it facing the other way so it's easier to hit) so you can toss Impy at it.
A knocked down Impy with no focus is a lot less dangerous, just remember it does still have a gun so it can stand and shoot.
Obviously this works better against Vyros that Issyian but if you can get a good angel you can toss Impy behind your lines where you can either ignore it for a round (don't forget about the gun), gang up on it, and/or use your caster to finish it off in safety.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Apr 7, 2017 17:06:49 GMT
Crusaders call doesn't give free changes but Thyron's Assail does. Also his bond lets him charge for free when under either Vyros. Ret also has other ways to boost damage on top of CP. Vryos1's or Issyria's feat, Helynna's Hand of Destruction, or Vyros2's Synergy. With SPD 6 and 2" reach a lot of times you can just walk Impy up and buy a third attack since you normally do more damage than with a charge. Yup, I'm aware. But going down this road leads to Theorymachine where if they bring Vyros/Issyria/Helynna then I bring Hark/Kozlov/Strak_2 for the Arm Buff, etc. Hell, notice how we assumed Imperatus had Concentrated Power? It leads nowhere, they have tricks, we have tricks. Just be aware of what the number say and act accordingly in game and leverage your own tricks to stop them. Also, having dirt cheap jacks that punch above their weight class is one of our tricks.
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Post by HereComesTomorrow on Apr 8, 2017 15:33:42 GMT
Crusaders call doesn't give free changes but Thyron's Assail does. Also his bond lets him charge for free when under either Vyros. Ret also has other ways to boost damage on top of CP. Vryos1's or Issyria's feat, Helynna's Hand of Destruction, or Vyros2's Synergy. With SPD 6 and 2" reach a lot of times you can just walk Impy up and buy a third attack since you normally do more damage than with a charge. Yup, I'm aware. But going down this road leads to Theorymachine where if they bring Vyros/Issyria/Helynna then I bring Hark/Kozlov/Strak_2 for the Arm Buff, etc. Hell, notice how we assumed Imperatus had Concentrated Power? It leads nowhere, they have tricks, we have tricks. Just be aware of what the number say and act accordingly in game and leverage your own tricks to stop them. Also, having dirt cheap jacks that punch above their weight class is one of our tricks. It was assumed that Imperatus has Concentrated Power because every Ret list has Arcanists in it and if you're commiting Imperatus to a charge they will put Concentrated Power on him. I tried to make a Khador comparison but we don't really have an equivelent model.
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Post by cplmustard on Apr 8, 2017 15:57:36 GMT
I play Ret with Impy and one thing my opponent has done that has worked is throwing Impy out of control range. It will be really hard to get a good angle to toss directly away but if you stick a cheap warrior model, like a standard bearer, in LOS of your jack (even have it facing the other way so it's easier to hit) so you can toss Impy at it. A knocked down Impy with no focus is a lot less dangerous, just remember it does still have a gun so it can stand and shoot. Obviously this works better against Vyros that Issyian but if you can get a good angel you can toss Impy behind your lines where you can either ignore it for a round (don't forget about the gun), gang up on it, and/or use your caster to finish it off in safety. That's been errata'd, you can't target friendlies with power attacks anymore
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Post by Irusk2K on Apr 8, 2017 19:07:06 GMT
Good call I forgot about that.
Well throwing directly away can still works if you can get the angle.
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Post by Netherby on Apr 9, 2017 2:35:44 GMT
It has an 8" walking threat range... That is the same threat as a charging Jugg What are you Marshalling it? We have more casters WITH battlegroup wide speed enhancers then we don't. We actually only have 4 of our 19 casters that have battle group wide speed buffs. Then an additional 3 with a feat that increases speed. The rest of the buffs are single target upkeeps or boundless charge. While it's true that most of our casters have a way to speed up *a* jack for a turn, it's costing a minimum of 2 focus to do so. So yes, we CAN out-threat the WALKING speed of Imperatus by spending additional focus
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Apr 9, 2017 2:41:59 GMT
We actually only have 4 of our 19 casters that have battle group wide speed buffs. Then an additional 3 with a feat that increases speed. The rest of the buffs are single target upkeeps or boundless charge. While it's true that most of our casters have a way to speed up *a* jack for a turn, it's costing a minimum of 2 focus to do so. So yes, we CAN out-threat the WALKING speed of Imperatus by spending additional focus Andrei Malakov: Mobility Butcher 2: Conferred Rage Butcher 3: Energizer Kommander Harkevitch: Mobility Irusk 2: Energizer Kharchev: Road to War Old Witch 1: Apparition I mean those are the ones with reliable turn by turn battlegroup wide speed buffs. I wasn't even counting feats, or singular warjack speed boosts. And its true that we pay focus for this superior speed (Except old witch 1), we also still get the best armor. And you are incorrect. If the Imperatus CHARGES its got a Threat Range 11. But thats only because of Reach. A Juggy has a threat range of 10 Under apparition for instance.
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Post by Netherby on Apr 9, 2017 2:48:29 GMT
I don't count Karchev because Road to War requires you to kill things and you only get to move one model per thing killed. Butcher 2 also needs to kill a model him self to apply rage. I said we can out threat the walking speed of Imperatus, not the charging speed
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Apr 9, 2017 2:54:37 GMT
I don't count Karchev because Road to War requires you to kill things and you only get to move one model per thing killed. Butcher 2 also needs to kill a model him self to apply rage. I said we can out threat the walking speed of Imperatus, not the charging speed Well a Spriggain Can Match it with any of our speed enhanced Warjacks...We just happen to lack many a Reach Jack. And we get a Maurader and a Juggernaught for a Single Imperatus. And Buy or Boost is down for some reason but point being even it with with a +2 Damage boost from the mechanic has it very unlikely of One rounding a Jugger.
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Post by welshhoppo on Apr 9, 2017 15:10:29 GMT
Are all forgetting that Imperatus has side step? His walking threat is 12 inches as he can move twice if he hits. And with reach he can normally whack a heavy to get extra distance. And if he takes a free strike that cripples something, he can pop his protocol to be at full strength.
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Post by Kallas on Apr 9, 2017 19:29:48 GMT
And if he takes a free strike that cripples something, he can pop his protocol to be at full strength. Imperatus can use Phoenix Protocol: - when he become Disabled (must be triggered then or be dead) - during the Maintenance Phase. He cannot use it at all during his activation. That said, he does have a 12 box Force Field which will likely absorb a powerful free strike if it's at full strength. As for dealing with him: He's P+S 17 (19 with Concentrated Power, which he will very likely have.) Outside of Vyros2 (Synergy), Vyros1's feat (Flank) or Issyria's feat turn (S&P basically) he'll struggle to go through a fully healthy Khador heavy (though it's likely to his target will have been damaged by something at range beforehand) as even with ConPower he's hitting at dice-1 (so assuming he walks an average of 30 damage; free charge with either Vyros puts that to 33.5, plus possible Continuous Fire damage.) While he's a super dangerous threat he's roughly equivalent to Behemoth (insofar as being an expensive - he's 22pts - but great heavy) but does very different things on the table. A good rule of thumb of Warmachine is to set up to trade effectively and that's pretty true for Imperatus. If you can force him to commit to a cheap heavy (Juggernaut or Marauder, or Devastator for higher odds of surviving/being nearly totally immovable) while keeping a powerful hitter nearby (Juggernaut or Behemoth, for example) then you can retaliate. If he declines to take the bait you can pressure forward. Similarly, good control effects help with this: - Irusk1 has Inhospitable Ground: only Thyron (Onslaught, Cost 2, upkeep, requires a charge), Vyros1 (Mobility, Cost 3 of FOC 6) and Vyros2 (Easy Rider, Cost 3 of FOC 6) can give him Pathfinder, same principle with Irusk2's Artifice of Deviation - speaking of Irusk2, his Feat effective negates his charging speed advantage as well as bringing high damage in Battle Lust plus jack speed in Energiser - Harkevich brings high ARM in his Feat, Mobility and Reposition 3 can keep your jacks together while doing work at range (try lobbing shots at Arcanists on the approach!) - Malakov2's feat straight up defeats Imperatus as he'll Side Step first then you get to walk out of melee with him - there are others, but you should get the point. As for killing him: - Sorscha1's feat or Freezing Grip will let your stuff apply damage properly and/or force shaking expenditure (just be aware of a Lys Healer solo nearby if they have one) - Sorscha2's feat lets you brutalise even Imperatus, especially if you can force through a positive trade situation - Karchev is similar to Sorscha2 with his Feat but Battle Charged brings control (a possible Counter Charge Crit Freeze will ruin anyone's day) - Any of the Butchers can kill him personally (watch out for Vyros1/Issyria who have Inviolable Resolve) - Field Guns aiming (and/or Joe) for DEF fixing, particularly against Ossyan and Issyria who both have Admonition. He's an excellent piece but he's not unbeatable. As a 6 year Ret veteran who's currently playing Khador for a break, it will be interesting if/when I come up against Imperatus if I can practise what I preach
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Post by Netherby on Apr 10, 2017 4:31:08 GMT
All Ret casters also have access to Whip Snap. Which further increases the threat ranges.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Apr 10, 2017 11:22:18 GMT
I remember that you can hire Alten Ashley, but is it wrong? After take out some Shield Guard bots it can't use Phoenix Protocol.
12/18 warjack is an easy prey for many anti armor shots. But, remember that Retribution can access for +2 DEF againat ranged attacks aura, and +2 ARM against the ranged attacka as well. In the worst situation, it is 14/20 without any buff for the caster. But it doesn't work against melee.
Anyway, after neutralize Phoenix Protocol it is just a squish heavy. But its good speed makes you annoying to attack it. So it seems that you need to throw away a Juggernaut or cheaper something and bait it.
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Post by welshhoppo on Apr 10, 2017 12:40:08 GMT
Here's the kicker, Imperatus is Def13 basic. It puts him just above the curve.
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