faelin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 121
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Hot Takes
Mar 8, 2018 16:02:31 GMT
via mobile
Post by faelin on Mar 8, 2018 16:02:31 GMT
Someone made a comment earlier about Engine of Destruction being a trap on Locke. Remember, they're a CoC warcaster too. So Engine would give all the CoC Jacks a mat boost. Mat 9 battlegroups are nice. Definitely worth casting depending on which faction your running under.
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Post by galrohir on Mar 8, 2018 17:43:48 GMT
What are the theme benefits? I don't have that one pdf. You don't have the PDF because there isn't one, they're posted in the topic. At any rate: Prima Materia: Allowed Models: - CG Warcaster; -Non-Character jacks; -Combat Alchemists; -Dragon's Breath Weapon Crews; -Medium Based CG Units; -Aurum Alyce Marc; -CG Mechanik Solos; -Gorman; -Hutchuck; -Prospero; -Trancers; -Railless Battle engines
Benefts:
-For every full 30 points of Crucible Guard warjacks, Dragon’s Breath Rocket units, and battle engines in this army, you can add one Combat Alchemist unit, three Crucible Guard Mechanik solos, or one other Crucible Guard solo to the army free of cost. -Vanguard warjacks in this army can use Shield Guard twice per turn. -For each unit in this army, one Crucible Guard heavy warjack or battle engine in this army can gain Advance Move. (Before the start of the game, but after both players have deployed, a model with Advance Move can make a full advance.) Magnum Opus: Allowed Models:
- CG Warcasters; -Non-character jacks; -CG Units; -CG Solos; -CG Battle Engines
Benefits:
-This army can also include one Mercenary solo and one Mercenary unit that will work for Crucible Guard. These models/units can be included even if they have the Partisan [Crucible Guard] special rule. Mercenary units in this army can include attachments. -For every full 20 points of Crucible Guard units and solos in this army, you can add Crucible Guard weapon crew unit, one Crucible Guard command attachment, or Crucible Guard solo to the army free of cost. Free command attachments and solos do not count toward the total point value of units and solos in the army when calculating this bonus. -Crucible Guard solos and Crucible Guard weapon crew units in this army gain Reposition [3˝]. (At the end of an activation it did not run or fail a charge, a model with Reposition [3˝] can advance up to 3˝, then its activation ends.) -You gain +1 to your starting roll for the game.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Mar 8, 2018 17:45:41 GMT
What are the theme benefits? I don't have that one pdf. They are not in the PDF. They are in a thread posted by the Dev team. Here you go: Prima Materia
This theme force represents the highest level of Crucible technology - secrets that they would not share with other mercenaries or factions, keeping the best for themselves. This concept is shown by the exclusion of the Mercenary inclusion rule you commonly see in theme forces. and the increased mobility and functioning of warjacks/battle engines. It is more restrictive than its counterpart and should remain warjack/battle engine focused. Army CompositionAn army made using this theme force can include only the following Crucible Guard models: · Crucible Guard warcasters · non-character warjacks · Combat Alchemist units · Dragon’s Breath Rocket weapon crew units · Medium-based Crucible Guard units · Arum Ominus Alyce Marc · Crucible Guard Mechanik solos · Gorman Di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist · Hutchuk, Ogrun Bounty Hunter · Prospero · Trancer solos · Railless battle engines Special Rules
· For every full 30 points of Crucible Guard warjacks, Dragon’s Breath Rocket units, and battle engines in this army, you can add one Combat Alchemist unit, three Crucible Guard Mechanik solos, or one other Crucible Guard solo to the army free of cost. · Vanguard warjacks in this army can use Shield Guard twice per turn. · For each unit in this army, one Crucible Guard heavy warjack or battle engine in this army can gain Advance Move. (Before the start of the game, but after both players have deployed, a model with Advance Move can make a full advance.) ____________________________________ Magnum Opus
Magnum Opus is an infantry focused theme force. It’s large differentiating option from Prima Materia is the inclusion of general Mercenary units and solos. It should benefit infantry focused builds. Army Composition
An army made using this theme force can include only the following Crucible Guard models: · Crucible Guard warcasters · non-character warjacks · Crucible Guard units · Crucible Guard solos · Crucible Guard battle engines Special Rules
· This army can also include one Mercenary solo and one Mercenary unit that will work for Crucible Guard. These models/units can be included even if they have the Partisan [Crucible Guard] special rule. Mercenary units in this army can include attachments. · For every full 20 points of Crucible Guard units and solos in this army, you can add Crucible Guard weapon crew unit, one Crucible Guard command attachment, or Crucible Guard solo to the army free of cost. Free command attachments and solos do not count toward the total point value of units and solos in the army when calculating this bonus. · Crucible Guard solos and Crucible Guard weapon crew units in this army gain Reposition [3˝]. (At the end of an activation it did not run or fail a charge, a model with Reposition [3˝] can advance up to 3˝, then its activation ends.) · You gain +1 to your starting roll for the game.
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Hot Takes
Mar 8, 2018 19:57:31 GMT
via mobile
Post by skormedlover87 on Mar 8, 2018 19:57:31 GMT
My reaction after reading it, listening to the dev talk, reading it again and sleeping on it.
Fair and balanced overall. Yes, if you let them have their way with you, it'll be a bad day, same goes for most factions. Lots of their guns are long range, relatively high pow, but they're not ignoring stealth, shield guard, concealment, cover. All the common anti-gun stuff. I saw a fair amount of dispel but no blessed in faction aside from the 1 sword. So they'll have to operate "fairly".
I hate the look of all the huge bases. Maybe it'll change when I see painted, 3d models, but I hate all of it right now. Which is a shame, because I kinda like the heavy and light chassis. The Toro especially makes me think Gru.
Magic guns all over the place. Support bloat that also does work.
The Vindicator is going to rip hunks out of Jacks.
Each of the casters in this army seems to have an assassination "out". If they want to focus on not dieing, they absolutely won't to anything less than The Butcher. High bar.
Locke may be too efficient, especially in CoC. All her upkeeps should be free, mat 9 vectors, an amazing spell list, essentially 2 good feats mashed together, field marshal Precision and Vital Magic? That feels like a lot of power.
Transmutation seems like it'll be easy to get abusive with but maybe because it's an upkeep we'll be able to live with it.
I personally don't share the Baldwin love. I'm sure he'll be fine, but he's not my cup of grog.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Mar 8, 2018 22:40:27 GMT
I feel you on Gearhart. His spell list is good, his Feat is better on paper than practice, and his guns are nice, but he has real Focus problems if he wants to do much with them and cast anything. Or power 'jacks. I am feeling the lack of Focus support in-faction. Plus, his gun game is countered by most anti-shooting tech. I would have liked him to be lobbing out debuffs with every attack, but alas. I also kind of want Catalytic Detonator to be RNG 10. He will likely have to expose to use it on heavy targets and that's probably not worth the risk. I love the character of him, but I think he's probably in the running for one of the faction's weakest 'casters. That said, I also have issues with MacKay, but I haven't dug into her with theorizing and list development yet.
Syvestro and Lukas both look strong and fun. Locke might be too much, but I need to see if that plays out on the table.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Mar 9, 2018 15:29:59 GMT
I was reading through Lukas's sheet and thought "Oh cool, he's gonna be a spellslinger junkie caster. Nice!" Then I looked at his spell list and thought, "Well, maybe...but not really..." And then native Focus 5. So....he's more like Dr. Jekyll/MR. MELEE RAGEMONSTER.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Mar 9, 2018 15:41:50 GMT
I was reading through Lukas's sheet and thought "Oh cool, he's gonna be a spellslinger junkie caster. Nice!" Then I looked at his spell list and thought, "Well, maybe...but not really..." And then native Focus 5. So....he's more like Dr. Jekyll/MR. MELEE RAGEMONSTER. From the battle reports people have placed he mainly upkeeps his spells and then puts out Burning Ash. He can also threaten a pretty good assassination setup with Force Hammer and Disintegration under his feat. mat 7 ps 13 is pretty average melee. His turn breakdown probably goes like this
Turn 1: put out upkeeps, no Juice Turn 2: Juice for 3 FOCUS Turn 3: Juice for 2 FOCUS, then most likely feat for 3 FOCUS Turn 4: Juice for 3 FOCUS Turn 5: Juice for 2 FOCUS etc..
One thing that could be cool is him spending his whole stack before feating then just take 8 damage to get it all back to sling more spells, Disintegrations is not an upkeep so he can tag multiple targets.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Mar 9, 2018 17:02:37 GMT
Has it been clarified yet if his focus stat changes or if he just gains the extra focus?
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Mar 9, 2018 17:10:18 GMT
Has it been clarified yet if his focus stat changes or if he just gains the extra focus? Juicer expires so he goes back down to focus stat 5, His focus stat then changes to 8, but because it is not at the start of the CTRL phase (like normal juicer) he does not gain 3 focus points, he needs to take damage to get focus under the feat.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Mar 9, 2018 17:36:21 GMT
Has it been clarified yet if his focus stat changes or if he just gains the extra focus? Juicer expires so he goes back down to focus stat 5, His focus stat then changes to 8, but because it is not at the start of the CTRL phase (like normal juicer) he does not gain 3 focus points, he needs to take damage to get focus under the feat. I guess I wasn't clear enough. Does his Focus Stat change to then increase his control area?
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Post by hocestbellum on Mar 9, 2018 17:42:17 GMT
Juicer expires so he goes back down to focus stat 5, His focus stat then changes to 8, but because it is not at the start of the CTRL phase (like normal juicer) he does not gain 3 focus points, he needs to take damage to get focus under the feat. I guess I wan't clear enough. Does his Focus Stat change to then increase his control area? His control area is always 12", regardless of Focus stat
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Mar 9, 2018 17:48:56 GMT
I guess I wan't clear enough. Does his Focus Stat change to then increase his control area? His control area is always 12", regardless of Focus stat Derpy derp derp. I missed the fixed control area part.
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Mar 9, 2018 19:53:44 GMT
Someone made a comment earlier about Engine of Destruction being a trap on Locke. Remember, they're a CoC warcaster too. So Engine would give all the CoC Jacks a mat boost. Mat 9 battlegroups are nice. Definitely worth casting depending on which faction your running under. That was me, and i totally missed they were a CoC caster in addition. So trappy in CG, but uh, yeah, quite potent in CoC. TOtally agree, for a CoC caster, holy shit, is Engine amazing.
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Mar 9, 2018 20:10:14 GMT
I feel you on Gearhart. His spell list is good, his Feat is better on paper than practice, and his guns are nice, but he has real Focus problems if he wants to do much with them and cast anything. Or power 'jacks. I am feeling the lack of Focus support in-faction. Plus, his gun game is countered by most anti-shooting tech. I would have liked him to be lobbing out debuffs with every attack, but alas. I also kind of want Catalytic Detonator to be RNG 10. He will likely have to expose to use it on heavy targets and that's probably not worth the risk. I love the character of him, but I think he's probably in the running for one of the faction's weakest 'casters. That said, I also have issues with MacKay, but I haven't dug into her with theorizing and list development yet. Syvestro and Lukas both look strong and fun. Locke might be too much, but I need to see if that plays out on the table. I feel the same on gearheart. I think he has one of the weaker spell lists (though don't get me wrong, its still nice, but 3/5 of these casters have holy shit good spell lists), and his feat is probably the weakest of the bunch (there's a lot of counter play to this feat which people who are saying its super good are either not giving credence to or are ignoring / downplaying - less counter play than to Prey in general because you can time when to pop it, but there's certainly counter play). There's another glaring weakness to gearhart. Kill Jeeves the gun caddy and you severely limit probably the best thing about Gearhart which is the gun for all seasons. He loses the reload and the variability in shots. To get those benefits, CLogg has to be B2B with gearhart - granted as a ranged oriented caster he'll be back a touch, but still, a btb, attached, dual special action attachment with 13/11 (capable of 13 vs ranged and magic via decl in fairness), with 5 boxes is a bit of a handicap. At least Reinholdt has a high native defense in his favor, and squire's isn't shabby. I know that Cloggs issues are mostly the issues with attachments period, but still, you lose this attachment, and the caster loses a ton of his functionality. Combined with the good but not great spell list, the median focus with a strong desire to cast at least a spell if not more a turn, and a feat that punishes the dumb, but can be counterplayed by a savvy opponent, and he's rounding out near the bottom of the pile in my estimation. ANother issue with Gearhart: he comes with his own attachment, which means he can't take Alyce Marc or Reinholdt, which means he has no inborn method of stealth ignoring for any of his shots past his spray, which means if you want to ignore stealth with any shot past your spray, you're stuck with a crawler (unless you count Flare from McKay in a 2 caster game, which i do not). A ranged caster with no purchased or inherent way to get around stealth for 3/4 of your shot types is not optimal. Right now, as they stand, i really like Lukas and Locke, though i have some balance concerns with Lukas all around, and Locke in CoC. McKay seems uninspired but functional (though i kinda want a battle engine focused caster / list oriented combo to have a more exciting superlative than "functional". ) Sylvestro i think is close, i think downgrading super stealth to stealth and capping the free spell effect at 3 focus or less costing spells and you're basically good to go with him. Gearhart though... cool concept. Not sure about the current implementation. The good parts about Gearhart is that he does offer a good amount of support - veteran leaders to infantry as well as decel, hot shot to ranged jacks (the spray jacks are gonna love this), Boundless charge for more threat... but his personal offensive output is questionable, and for a caster where the focus is OMG, All the guns!, its a bit odd that his design seems more geared up for a support role rather than being on the offensive - because you can hamstring him with a single surgical, and not hard to kill, (even with decel up, a POW 11 kills Clogg unboosted half the time if it connects - and if gearhart is attacking, you're within 12" of a target which is not a huge threat range, so you're probably at most 13" threat range from clogg). Dunno, most of the other ones "click", but something's off about gearhart.
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Mar 9, 2018 20:14:51 GMT
I was reading through Lukas's sheet and thought "Oh cool, he's gonna be a spellslinger junkie caster. Nice!" Then I looked at his spell list and thought, "Well, maybe...but not really..." And then native Focus 5. So....he's more like Dr. Jekyll/MR. MELEE RAGEMONSTER. From the battle reports people have placed he mainly upkeeps his spells and then puts out Burning Ash. He can also threaten a pretty good assassination setup with Force Hammer and Disintegration under his feat. mat 7 ps 13 is pretty average melee. His turn breakdown probably goes like this
Turn 1: put out upkeeps, no Juice Turn 2: Juice for 3 FOCUS Turn 3: Juice for 2 FOCUS, then most likely feat for 3 FOCUS Turn 4: Juice for 3 FOCUS Turn 5: Juice for 2 FOCUS etc..
One thing that could be cool is him spending his whole stack before feating then just take 8 damage to get it all back to sling more spells, Disintegrations is not an upkeep so he can tag multiple targets.
I question why people are just "upkeeping spells and putting out burning ash". Not that they are, but why. If you're not absolutely abusing the shit out of disintegration and forcehammer with a nearly functionally whole-game 7-8 focus caster, and on one given turn 16 (juice, spend, feat, cut for 8, spend) potentially, in my estimation a player is not Lukas'ing properly.
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